Presentation for: New Southbank Riverwalk

[Tacachale]

These things are all fine and dandy and can be easily accommodated.....when the width of the path isn't reduced to something as minimal as 8' in. At 8', it's short sighted thinking at best because the actual usable width is much less than that.

Areas for lingering that don't impact the travelway/throughway should be included.....or it should have been built at the same width it was before.

Yep. I can't conceive of a reason why they didn't just keep the same width - or why no one figured out this was going to be a problem.

[120North]

The old riverwalk was 15' wide.  There were many areas with benches on both sides (3' wide benches).  The new riverwalk is 14' wide with benches on one side (talking about the straight benches) and a 16" wide handrail on the other.  It is nearly the same usable walking area for the most part as the old riverwalk.  The curved benches do restrict some and should be addressed, but overall, it is almost the same.

Also, there are a few wider gathering areas on the walk where this isn't a problem.

[coredumped]

Yep. I can't conceive of a reason why they didn't just keep the same width - or why no one figured out this was going to be a problem.

I reckon cost. This structure is much more significant than the old wood one. Looking at the video it looks like it's concrete which would probably mean pillars, these things are expensive.

I'm glad the built it to last, but it's unfortunate it's not built for growth.

[edjax]

Were there any meetings where the public could attend in which the design was discussed?

[Noone]

It's definitely much more narrow in width than the wooden version it replaced.  Considering all we've heard about this is how it could accommodate both cyclist and pedestrians, I wonder why it was not build at the same width as the old riverwalk?

With that said, at 8' wide, the limited space has to be utilized properly to the max. The railings, benches (even the straight ones), and canopies are all designed in ways that do the complete opposite of better utilizing limited space.

+1

[edjax]

New story on this now up on News4Jax site. Have to tell you it is brutal reading. Does nobody proof these stories before they throw them up on their websites?!?  Also interesting to see the designer of said project and his comments.  Hmmmm

[thelakelander]

Well the article sums it up. Bikes aren't allowed.

[tufsu1]

These things are all fine and dandy and can be easily accommodated.....when the width of the path isn't reduced to something as minimal as 8' in. At 8', it's short sighted thinking at best because the actual usable width is much less than that.

Areas for lingering that don't impact the travelway/throughway should be included.....or it should have been built at the same width it was before.

Yep. I can't conceive of a reason why they didn't just keep the same width - or why no one figured out this was going to be a problem.

when you get out there you will see that it is a very different structure than before.  in most places, it is not directly connected to land.  This may  have been just a construction method, a way to save money, and/or a way to have less impact on the river.

[tufsu1]

Well the article sums it up. Bikes aren't allowed.

they weren't allowed on the previous southbank either

[thelakelander]

Does Redman know? I could have sworn bikes were mentioned in the interview.

[edjax]

Does Redman know? I could have sworn bikes were mentioned in the interview.

Well it wouldn't be the first time he didn't know what he was talking about. 

[iMarvin]

The video says bike wills be allowed and the article says they won't be. One is wrong.

[Noone]

While nobody knows what the heck is going on and remember the city council had to jump in with 2014-190 to make up for the 900' shortened Southbank Riverwalk. The next big story is the Super Duper Secret Downtown Docking zone map. Spoke with Scott Wilson 2/13/15 and he was going to FIND out about the lengths of the 2 NEW floating docks. Who will be telling our Regional partners about that story? This is still the Don and Scott show until July 1 when redistricting takes effect and this is no longer in District 4.

Someone's Fishin Lord, Kumbaya

[peestandingup]

The video says bike wills be allowed and the article says they won't be. One is wrong.

I'm guessing the article is wrong seeing that the builder mentions bikes in this video http://www.news4jax.com/news/city-addresses-concern-about-new-southbank-riverwalk/31256322

And no cyclist is going to dismount like they expect them to with this, so problems will def arise from this design. What's the point of a bike path that you have to walk through in places? My guess is they wont touch the benches & shade poles until people start getting injured.

[thelakelander]

A lot of people here want stuff like a bike share program to be implemented in this city.  If that's the case, we ultimately have to design our facilities to be multimodal friendly.  This would include riverwalks, IMO.

I don't know the rules or parameters of what was done with the Southbank Riverwalk but I suspect it's more narrow in width due to capital cost concerns. Nevertheless, if cyclist are allowed (which would be ideal for a goal of increasing bike/ped connectivity, creating an environment for bike share, etc.), it would have been better to maintain a 10' to 12' minimum clear area of width along the entire route.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment/bicycle_pedestrian/publications/sidewalk2/sidewalks214.cfm

In such a scenario, benches, sails, etc. would be best placed in locations that don't result in them penetrating that clear area. The images of Detroit's International Riverwalk are two of many examples of how you can accommodate benches, etc. when you don't have much width to play with.