Live blog: Ability Housing Springfield meeting

[samelevel]

Apache I'm thinking I might be wasting my time explaining why people don't want to live next to houses people were just killed in,or next to registered sex offenders, or the list of targeted folks AH has planned for cottage. It's logical, may not be nice but I'm sure most people would conclude that not living next to violent criminals is logical. Allowing AH to violate the overlay would set a permanent precedent that Historic Springfield is the spot to deal with all the socioeconomic issues facing the city. The Armory wasn't a good idea for a homeless drop in center and this isn't either. There are plenty of these types of projects and programs in this neighborhood and nobody is requesting any of those close or move. We just have enough already and don't need to be bullied into what a handful of people are demanding based on their own translation of a zoning overlay. Shannon Nazworth also admitted that these targeted people really could use some supervision and other services but that they absolutely can't provide those services at this location because of the overlay. Duh! How money hungry do you have to be to piss off an entire neighborhood, fight city hall, and risk jeopardizing the success of the people you get paid help?

Springfield and downtown is still poised for revitalization, it seems like its usually a two steps forward one step back kind of progress but its going to move in that direction. If AH knocks down the overlay that is meant to keep a healthy balance it won't be long before others follow suit or they start duplicating their holdings as they have done in other hoods. The only significant commercial progress I've seen here is Family Dollar, 7-11, and McDonalds. Oh and Operation New Hope, convenience stores, and a huge flat screen scoreboard. I think we were also coined one the best rental property investment areas in the country by some financial genius. Are you seeing the trend here? The economic opportunity for poorer and working class people are far stronger in revitalizing this entire area then opening the flood gate to a bunch of highfalutin non-profit outsiders trying to expand their investment holdings. I'm telling you families and owner occupied dwellings are the solution to turning around this area. 

[samelevel]

Stephen I will get to your post soon, promise. Yes, there has been a double murder in that building and in another low income housing nearby a suspected prostitute's son burned someone's cat, and not long ago a preacher was killed in his own church. You know all of this. You are like our own little version of Perez Hilton, you always have the juiciest gossip. And before I even begin to respond to your post let me make this clear I don't want anybody poor or otherwise pushed out of Springfield. Twist your own words all you want but don't twist mine. I probably would throw a big party if you left but I don't think there is a space big enough to hold such a festival. I gotta run for now, the crazy lady that marches up and down my street is at it again. She is yelling the N word and all sorts profanities, it looks like there might be some violence again. Do you have Shannon's number maybe she will know what to do?

[strider]

Just to remind everyone of the factual information about this subject:

Ms Wright-- who at the time was running for her seat on the school board and had her signs in Mr Meek's front yard-- followed Mr Meek's desires and lead a community walk to say that if Ability Housing was allowed to have the Cottage Avenue project, the area would no longer be safe for the children.  A few months later, a double murder occurred at the Cottage Avenue apartments without Ability Housing being there.  That is simply tragically ironic.

The city initially found Ability Housing's use -- owning and renting out to their clientele --- to be perfectly legal.  There is paperwork to prove that.  It was only after Mr Meeks paid out his money that Mr. Burney came up with his interpretation which now declares helping people find the help they need is illegal in Springfield.  The Planning Commission denied Ability Housing's appeal of that decision; however, Mr Teal made it clear that no new evidence was to be reviewed, meaning little things like the Federal laws were irrelevant to their decision.   The Commission was not to determine if the interpretation was correct or fair, but if Mr Burney had the right to make that interpretation  and to determine if it was reasonable in any way based only on the information Mr Burney used.  Knowing Mr Teal as I do, he hates to lose; he is not above stacking the deck.   He made it clear he was very aware that this interpretation could be considered against Federal laws.  Just go read the minutes and you will see that is true.

The only list offered by the opponents of Ability Housing to support their claims of an overload of terrible "special uses" in Springfield is a list of 45 properties owned by such "terrible non-profits" as Operation New Hope, SIAA, Karples Museum and yes, even SPAR Council itself.

The idea of Housing First comes from the Federal government and is now considered the Best Practice in dealing with the chronically homeless.  That means it is not a case of  putting them in housing and forgetting them.  Housing First means giving them a roof over their heads, making them safe and then helping them get the help they need as they realize they need it and want it.  It has proven to be more effective long term than an institutional type setting. What Ability Housing is planning on doing at Cottage Avenue is no different in the end than a elderly couple needing Meals on Wheels or wheel chair transport and getting help to figure that out.

Ability Housing was never going to do a veteran's only project and never said they were. What they did say was that they would give veterans the higher priority (remember that new VA clinic just down the way a bit?) and also give the same priority to helping the homeless living on Springfield's streets.  Trying to vilify Ability Housing over the above is just petty and ignorant.

Michelle Tappouni does now work for Ability Housing.  The interview happened long before this issue with Cottage Avenue.  She is hard working, fair and honest.  She is exactly what we need on city council. Even if (for some odd reason)  you do not like the company she works for, you should be glad she is there because she can make sure the project runs smoothly and legally.  Vilifying her for who she works for is a bit childish and also being ignorant of the facts.

A recent issue in New Orleans very, very similar to the Ability Housing one ended with New Orleans having to not only correct the issue, but change the laws to allow this type of housing by right and to pay for an additional 350 housing units.  How many millions of tax payer dollars is that just because a group of people fear the homeless and the government was foolish enough to follow the fear rather than common sense?

[SophieRichard]

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[Gators312]

Stephen I will get to your post soon, promise. Yes, there has been a double murder in that building and in another low income housing nearby a suspected prostitute's son burned someone's cat, and not long ago a preacher was killed in his own church. You know all of this. You are like our own little version of Perez Hilton, you always have the juiciest gossip. And before I even begin to respond to your post let me make this clear I don't want anybody poor or otherwise pushed out of Springfield. Twist your own words all you want but don't twist mine. I probably would throw a big party if you left but I don't think there is a space big enough to hold such a festival. I gotta run for now, the crazy lady that marches up and down my street is at it again. She is yelling the N word and all sorts profanities, it looks like there might be some violence again. Do you have Shannon's number maybe she will know what to do?

It's been a while, you PROMISED!   Maybe this one will be a little less about Stephen and include more facts that may support your opinions?

[whyisjohngalt]

samelevel is right.

Michelle Tappouni working for AH and being in a position to influence policy seems like a conflict of interest.  http://jacksonville.com/slideshow/2014-12-02/career-track-new-hires-promotions-december-2014#slide-2

There are so many other areas outside of Springfield that could, and should, be used for these projects.

[strider]

Thanks for posting a link to a great picture of the person who will be a great and fair and honest council person. As to any potential conflict of interest, is there even a single council person that you can't say has a potential conflict of interest?  If it isn't their jobs or career, it can be the church they belong to, the area they live in or even just who they know. It is the person you elect not what they do for a living and all we can do is get behind people who can rise above those potential conflicts.  Michelle Tappouni is one of those people.

There are so many other areas outside of Springfield that could, and should, be used for these projects.

Besides the fact that there are many social services all over Jacksonville, with the hospital and the new VA facility so close, the Springfield area is actually a good choice for this type of project. Jacksonville itself is so spread out that bus transportation to and from Shands and the VA clinic is iffy at best and takes much longer than most realize.  The wrong location for housing like this could hurt the residents more than help them. In addition, there has not been one iota of proof that this type of housing or any social service actually does hurt housing values or lease rates.  The rhetoric you hear about that is just fear based excuse making. Just like the rhetoric that the residents that Ability Housing would bring in would make the area less safe.

samelevel is right.

Actually, I do not believe he is and while I presented some supportable facts in a post above, I am still waiting for any real facts from the "anti helping the less fortunate in my community" faction that is against Ability Housing.

[whyisjohngalt]

Well, @strider, glad you're a fan of Michelle.  Considering she hasn't been in a political office before we really don't know how well she will be able to separate her employer's interest from her constituents'.

As a homeowner in Springfield I am against the AH project for the simple fact that the best pockets of Springfield are the areas with homes that contain families.  The worst have similar projects to the AH one.

It's more than redeveloping a building, it's what's inside.  The strong presence against, by people that live here, should be the only voice and support that really matters.

[whyisjohngalt]

As clearly stated, we are against AH et al.

And red herrings.

[whyisjohngalt]

The goal for most of us is to turn Springfield into a neighborhood.

The overlay should be changed to not only exclude the AH proposal but changed so that currently managed properties (even if they have a Corrine Brown sign) are no longer allowed.

We need to actually reverse the damage that allowing AH type programs encouraged now that people are interested in revitalizing the neighborhood.

Reinforcing the notion that this property would be a better asset to the community if AH moved in instead of understanding the perpetual consequence each of the properties have on hindering the progress of Springfield.

If you still lived in Springfield, and not employed by Ability Housing, you would not only see how founded and valid these concerns are, but agree.

[strider]

The goal for most of us is to turn Springfield into a neighborhood.

The overlay should be changed to not only exclude the AH proposal but changed so that currently managed properties (even if they have a Corrine Brown sign) are no longer allowed.

We need to actually reverse the damage that allowing AH type programs encouraged now that people are interested in revitalizing the neighborhood.

Reinforcing the notion that this property would be a better asset to the community if AH moved in instead of understanding the perpetual consequence each of the properties have on hindering the progress of Springfield.

If you still lived in Springfield, and not employed by Ability Housing, you would not only see how founded and valid these concerns are, but agree.

To begin with, Springfield is already a neighborhood.  Let me clue you in, it was a great neighborhood long before you came along.  It has the entire gamut of race and social economic diversity.  Just like most neighborhoods do today.  And also like most neighborhoods, some of the best people live in those places you don't want here while some of the worst people live in the fancy big expensive houses. 

I'm also encouraged that you agree that Mr Meek's paid for interpretation is not valid and that the overlay would have to be changed to make it truly illegal.  Oh, and are you willing to front the millions of dollars it would cost this city to try to push all of the legal service non-profits out of Springfield?  Because I guarantee it will cost millions of dollars to do so.

What Ability Housing is going to do with the Cottage Avenue apartments will indeed make them a better asset.  They will be much improved and the issues they have all resolved in positive ways.

By the way, some of the places it seems you would like to see forcibly removed from Springfield have been here since this was still one of the better locations in Jacksonville.  They have been here through the worst of times and even here during the high points of real estate values a decade ago.  And they are still here today.  So, you and yours and this latest interest and forward progress came after they were here so it seems they do not have that terrible negative effect after all.  The market and the state of the neighborhood is determined by something other than these non-profits and these people you do not want here.

I personally spend most of my days in Springfield.  I also have lived through this type of issue before.  The people you do not want here, the people Ability Housing wants to put into Cottage Avenue?  They are not who the residents of Springfield should fear.  It is the foot stomping almost a lynch mob crowd full of fear and the so called leadership driving that fear that we all need to be afraid of.  They are the ones truly doing harm to the community.

[whyisjohngalt]

I'm sure how this turned into a us vs them sort of argument. 

Simply put, if it is in your best interest for the commercial corridor of Main Street to be developed than it is also in your best interest for projects similar to Ability Housing to be discouraged and eventually removed as an obstacle to Springfield's potential.

I'm not going to make the argument that the loudest advocates for "diversity" are an obstacle to Springfield's development.  Obviously they are aware that there is diversity amongst higher and similar income classes as their own.

It's not people I'm against, it's the policies that are hindering the natural development Springfield by people that choose to move here, and be invested here, and the commercial development on Main Street.

The resistance to Ability Housing - by residents and neighbors no less - coming to Springfield is a positive and hopeful sign for Springfield's future.

[whyisjohngalt]

Just because you disagree doesn't make it false.

If I was more comfortable as a critic I wouldn't have to take a position and could just throw trollish banter at every post.

Or better yet, just pick and choose choice snippets to disagree with while agreeing with the majority of a post - like that contributes.

The goal for most of us is to turn Springfield into a neighborhood.

The overlay should be changed to not only exclude the AH proposal but changed so that currently managed properties (even if they have a Corrine Brown sign) are no longer allowed.

We need to actually reverse the damage that allowing AH type programs encouraged now that people are interested in revitalizing the neighborhood.

Reinforcing the notion that this property would be a better asset to the community if AH moved in instead of understanding the perpetual consequence each of the properties have on hindering the progress of Springfield.

If you still lived in Springfield, and not employed by Ability Housing, you would not only see how founded and valid these concerns are, but agree.

For instance, the best way to do the following would be to stop permitting Ability Housing and similar projects in Springfield.  Obviously there will still be diversity for diversity sake.

The best thing for the neighborhood would be to restore the homes that are there, stop tearing down historic houses, allow for a commercial strip to come back and clean up the abandoned lots.

[whyisjohngalt]

Replace "disabled veterans" with "sex offenders".

Is the concept that these housing programs actually hurt neighborhood / commercial development still too difficult?

Anyways maybe this type of pro-diversity endorsement will continue to shape Springfield into the community you want.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-12-20/story/protecting-public-creates-pools-sex-crime-felons-rural-and-less-affluent

"Jacksonville's highest concentration of offenders and predators lies north of downtown in ZIP code 32206"

[strider]

Replace "disabled veterans" with "sex offenders".

Is the concept that these housing programs actually hurt neighborhood / commercial development still too difficult?

Anyways maybe this type of pro-diversity endorsement will continue to shape Springfield into the community you want.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2014-12-20/story/protecting-public-creates-pools-sex-crime-felons-rural-and-less-affluent

"Jacksonville's highest concentration of offenders and predators lies north of downtown in ZIP code 32206"

Let me understand this.  You just compared having Ability Housing renting to disabled veterans to them renting to sex offenders? Now in your mind and what you want others to believe is that Disabled Veterans = Sex offenders?

All of this type of rhetoric is nothing but fear mongering and is a favored tactic of the so called leadership in Springfield at the moment, and obviously you.

Yes, the urban areas have a higher concentration of sex offenders than some of the more suburban areas.  Like the linked article said, most of those people never cause any problems.  And that information is always available before you decide to move somewhere.

Here's the biggest issue with you and your argument.  The places that you wish to move out of Springfield and the places like Ability Housing that are set up to help people screen for that issue. Yes, there are a couple that target helping the sex offender but for the most part, by stopping Ability Housing, you actually made it more likely that a sex offender would end up at Cottage Avenue.

Is the concept that the current leadership of Springfield that shares your ideals is what is truly hurting the progress of Springfield and not the existence of places like Ability Housing sinking in yet?