Allegiant Air Coming to JIA

[Steve]

Delta's service to NY (both LGA and JFK) is 100% RJ's. In fact, Delta has a lot of regionals at both airports there. LGA is generally flight length restricted, so it makes a lot of sense there. JFK will be done with a new extension of Terminal 4 exclusively for Delta RJs in the spring (LONG overdue).

As far as the JAX-LAX flight, I think some of it had to do with flight times, and therein lies the issue-you're not going to come up with one time that everyone loves, and you don't have enough people to have two flights.

The only one of JAX's Delta destinations that is 1x daily is JFK, and that flight is coordinated to line up with JFK'd international connections. Any one who travels to NYC a lot will almost always choose LGA, unless they are going to southern Queens or Brooklyn.

[blizz01]

Still waiting on a JAX ==> London flight.  I was hoping that there might be a little more yield all around given the business relationships that the city has been trying to foster (with the Jags/Fulham, etc.).

[chipwich]

Still waiting on a JAX ==> London flight.  I was hoping that there might be a little more yield all around given the business relationships that the city has been trying to foster (with the Jags/Fulham, etc.).

You're going to have to wait a long while for that one.  Without a West Coast flight, I wouldn't count on a European flight for at least a decade or more.  Since JIA lacks any support as a hub, it is purely an end destination point.  Given the lower MSA population, we're going to need to raise the MSA population by at least a million or bring in a lot more regular tourist/ business traffic.

Lack of direct flights absolutely kills business growth in the city.  Many companies will not expand to cities that do not have direct flights to major cities or at least their own headquarters.

I look forward to Jax hopefully supporting a LAX flight again (maybe SFO.) We may see Sky Harbor (US Air) or Salt Lake (Delta) as a reasonable hub options for West coast destinations if LAX landing fees are just too expensive to support.

[ProjectMaximus]

It's gonna take awhile, yes, but Jax-London is pretty decent. In 2011 we were at nearly 17k annual travelers and surely it's increased since then. Here are Jax's top 10 international O/Ds from 2011. We beat out a few of our peers like Buffalo and OK City quite significantly.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

International metro area (origin/destination)   Global region   2003 passenger total   2011 passenger total   Change, 2003–2011
1. Toronto, Canada   North America   16,566   18,609   +12.3%
2. London, United Kingdom   Western Europe   17,514   16,972   -3.1%
3. Montreal, Canada   North America   8,432   7,696   -8.7%
4. Manila, Philippines   Developing Asia-Pacific   5,783   7,646   +32.2%
5. Frankfurt am Main, Germany   Western Europe   10,695   6,577   -38.5%
6. Paris, France   Western Europe   7,301   6,305   -13.6%
7. Vancouver, Canada   North America   6,890   5,561   -19.3%
8. Rome, Italy   Western Europe   4,069   5,330   +31.0%
9. Cancun, Mexico   Latin America/Caribbean   6,224   5,117   -17.8%
10. Rotterdam-Amsterdam, Netherlands   Western Europe   5,080   4,954   -2.5%

[Steve]

I actually could see a scenario where we get a Europe flight before a west coast flight, and the reason is customer options. From let's say ATL, there's 5-6 options to LAX that day, yet even from there, there is only 1-2 to LHR, so people are used to working around the airline on a transatlantic.

I think the biggest hurdles there might be geography. The US carrier most likely add that flight would be Delta (they might route the flight to CDG instead as that's a DL hub), but from here, the smallest plane to make the trip is either a 767 or A330, which is a tough plane to fill here. Plus, they fly nearly hourly to ATL, and fill larger planes on that route so that has to be pretty economical for them.

[tufsu1]

meanwhile Tampa International Airport announced today direct flights to/from Frankfurt (Germany)

[CityLife]

If we did get a European flight before West Coast, where do you all think it would be? Perhaps even Frankfurt with the Deutsche Bank connection? I know a few people at DB and they fly to FRA frequently. Its also the third busiest airport in Europe, and gateway to the US military bases in Germany. Not to mention more centrally located and accessible to the rest of Europe than London or Paris. Germany has the best national railway in Europe, so its perfect to fly into and connect to another destination via train.

[CityLife]

Beat me by a minute TUFSU. If Tampa can pull that off so should we. Though, I guess there is kind of a large non-native German population in SW Florida.

[thelakelander]

^Tampa's market is at least twice the size of ours and that's not even counting the decent sized places around it, like Lakeland, Sarasota, etc.

[CityLife]

Does Tampa have any major employers with HQ in Frankfurt though? Or the military ties that we do? My dad used to fly 3+times a year from Jax to Frankfurt (via connections) to visit Army bases around Germany. Lots of other civilian contractors or military support from Jax do as well I believe.

Tampa no doubt has a greater population, I just wonder if we can pull it off too with some of our ties. Maybe that's just the dreamer in me that would prefer to fly into the continent rather than London.

[chipwich]

If I'm not mistaken, we had an Air Canada flight to Toronto Pearson several years ago and it didn't last.  If that's our top international destination, then I would be weary about our ability to attract a Trans-Atlantic flight in the near future.

Even with the 18,000 annual passengers mentioned above, let's say Air Canada flies a 100 person regional jet to Toronto six days a week.  That's 600 origination passengers a week or 31,200 passengers a year. A Transatlantic flight would need about 100,000 passengers to fill the flight.  I guess that is why hub and spoke still works so well for international flights.  It's much easier to fill the plane when they fill it with passengers from multiple cities.

JIA currently averages about 5.3 million total passengers a year (roughly 2.15 million enplanements) or about 5,900 origination passengers a day.  There just aren't enough people to consistently fill the planes needed for more direct flights.

I really wish the City could convince Mayport to allow larger (and more) Cruise ships.  I am sure an extra 3,000 or so passengers a week coming into town could do wonders for attracting and sustaining more flights.

[spuwho]

The Delta JAX/LAX started with a 757 at the beginning. Moved down to lesser seat 737 when they couldnt get the volumes.

I agree that if the Deutsch presence grows in Jax you might see a US Airways non stop since they already service Frankfort and JIA extensively. Lufthansa will never come to JIA direct. They would rather code share through Atlanta. We would be more likely to get a discounter like Air Berlin, which is Eurozone only today.

JAX just doesnt generate the volumes in large enough repetition to support foreign non stops. The best they can hope for is if a non code share airline decides to use JIA as a hub gateway to the US to avoid NYC and ATL pattern and gate congestion.

Personally all my international flights have routed through Atlanta for Europe and Africa, Dallas for Asia since I moved here.

When I lived in Chicago, I had my pick of the litter. It was a great luxury to have.

For me the worse city to fly to/from Jax was Salt Lake City. If you didnt catch that 2pm MT flight, you were screwed. Especially tough with restrictive corporate hotel standards.

[thelakelander]

Does Tampa have any major employers with HQ in Frankfurt though? Or the military ties that we do? My dad used to fly 3+times a year from Jax to Frankfurt (via connections) to visit Army bases around Germany. Lots of other civilian contractors or military support from Jax do as well I believe.

Tampa no doubt has a greater population, I just wonder if we can pull it off too with some of our ties. Maybe that's just the dreamer in me that would prefer to fly into the continent rather than London.

Maybe they have more of a connection that we give them credit for:

Germany has the third-largest number of foreign-owned businesses (66) in Tampa Bay, about 16% of the Tampa Bay Foreign Owned Companies. German companies employ 22,000 people in Florida (5).

In 2012, the German American Chamber of Commerce of the Southern United States chose Tampa as the chapter's headquarters. The chapter will promote and support bilateral trade between Germany and the State of Florida (6).

https://www.tampachamber.com/Trade-Council/International-Trade/Export-Companies/Germany.aspx

[ProjectMaximus]

If I'm not mistaken, we had an Air Canada flight to Toronto Pearson several years ago and it didn't last.  If that's our top international destination, then I would be weary about our ability to attract a Trans-Atlantic flight in the near future.

Even with the 18,000 annual passengers mentioned above, let's say Air Canada flies a 100 person regional jet to Toronto six days a week.  That's 600 origination passengers a week or 31,200 passengers a year. A Transatlantic flight would need about 100,000 passengers to fill the flight.  I guess that is why hub and spoke still works so well for international flights.  It's much easier to fill the plane when they fill it with passengers from multiple cities.

Toronto direct flights were over a decade ago. It's a gateway for most people flying to Canada from the US. http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/041201/bus_5891247.html

If Air Canada wants to return to JAX the current numbers are a bit better for not just Toronto but other Canadian final destinations...approximately 43k showing up for Canada in 2011. And if there's a direct flight option then perhaps more Torontonians would visit Jax...perhaps cruisers. 

[Ocklawaha]

Several plane loads of people make the JAX-LAX trip daily, they did it back in the late 70's and early 80's too, before National was eaten by Pan Am and gutted for it's aircraft, before Eastern's wings were clipped and when Southern and Piedmont were in expansion mode... Today even more people make those trips... they drive to Orlando and fly from there since the critical mass allows Orlando to frequently offer such seats at an amazing discount. 'THANK MICKEY!'