Transit in Jacksonville, Let's Get Started!

[thelakelander]

actually NYC is build a new line along 2nd ave now, it was in the planning stages for over 50 years. A subway doesn't seem to be in JAX's future for many reasons, cost is just the biggest one.

NYC is not building a subway system from scratch.  They have had a system for over 100 years. 

Regarding the beaches, a BRT (something which is a terrible concept) isn't needed, what needs to be determined first is what level of service is needed and then if warranted use express buses that pick up in few stops at the beaches and makes a loop around the core.

BRT can be many things.  On the low end, its nothing more than express buses.  On the high end, its dedicated busways.  I agree that building a dedicated busway to the beaches would be insane.  However, a few improvements at intersections to make express buses more efficient would be a viable option of BRT, imo.

[apvbguy]

NYC is not building a subway system from scratch.  They have had a system for over 100 years. 

my dear misinformed friend, this line being built is akin to a new line, this new line isn't an extension, expansion or replacement if an existing subway line, it is a new line from scratch which will not (via revenue trackage) connect with any other existing line. It is a new subway.

[apvbguy]

BRT can be many things.  On the low end, its nothing more than express buses.  On the high end, its dedicated busways.  I agree that building a dedicated busway to the beaches would be insane.  However, a few improvements at intersections to make express buses more efficient would be a viable option of BRT, imo.

we are battling  about semantics. first thing to do is see if there is a need or demand for this type of service from the beaches. what might make more sense is running more buses with limited stops along beach and atlantic

[thelakelander]

NYC is not building a subway system from scratch.  They have had a system for over 100 years. 

my dear misinformed friend, this line being built is akin to a new line, this new line isn't an extension, expansion or replacement if an existing subway line, it is a new line from scratch which will not (via revenue trackage) connect with any other existing line. It is a new subway.

Again, NYC is a city that already has subways.  I also can't imagine them building a new line that does not connect at all with the current network they already have.  Imo, this means it would be expansion, not starting a complete system up from scratch.

To clear things up, all I meant was you'll be hard pressed to find an American city that does not already have them talking about spending billions to create heavy rail systems.  In most American cities, other forms of rail transit are more feasible.  Sorry for the confusion.

[Lunican]

When adding a transit line in Manhattan, you really don't have many options. Regardless of what other cities are doing, a subway does not make sense for Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

BRT can be many things.  On the low end, its nothing more than express buses.  On the high end, its dedicated busways.  I agree that building a dedicated busway to the beaches would be insane.  However, a few improvements at intersections to make express buses more efficient would be a viable option of BRT, imo.

we are battling  about semantics. first thing to do is see if there is a need or demand for this type of service from the beaches. what might make more sense is running more buses with limited stops along beach and atlantic

I wasn't arguing, I was only trying to clear up the point I was making.  I agree with the second half of this statement.  Running buses with limited stops is a simplistic form of BRT.  

[Ocklawaha]

The Second Avenue Subway project will include a two-track line along Second Avenue from 125th Street to the Financial District in Lower Manhattan. It will also include a connection from Second Avenue through the 63rd Street tunnel to existing tracks for service to West Midtown and Brooklyn. Sixteen new ADA accessible stations will be constructed.

The Second Avenue Subway will reduce overcrowding and delays on the Lexington Avenue line, improving travel for both city and suburban commuters, and provide better access to mass transit for residents of the far East Side of Manhattan. Stations will have a combination of escalators, stairs, and in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, elevator connections from street-level to station mezzanine and from mezzanine to platforms.

Under the current plan, the project will be built in four phases. Phase One will include tunnels from 105th Street and Second Avenue to 63rd Street and Third Avenue, with new stations along Second Avenue at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets and new entrances to the existing Lexington Av/63 Street Station at 63rd Street and Third Avenue.

It is the Subway equal of the Alameda Corridor in California, a new shortcut on new track. Future plans call for consolidation of several weaker routes onto this corridor. End the end, the project track miles might shrink and passenger miles increase.

OCKLAWAHA

[apvbguy]

Again, NYC is a city that already has subways.  I also can't imagine them building a new line that does not connect at all with the current network they already have.  Imo, this means it would be expansion, not starting a complete system up from scratch.

regardless of what you could or could not imagine, that is exactly what is being built in NYC. Thanks for playing, see you next issue

[apvbguy]

To clear things up, all I meant was you'll be hard pressed to find an American city that does not already have them talking about spending billions to create heavy rail systems.  In most American cities, other forms of rail transit are more feasible.  Sorry for the confusion.

have you ever heard of Los Angeles?
try googling MTA and then search for LA's MTA and see what they've built in the recent past and what is planned.
A bit older but applicable is the DC metro, about 25 years old now, built from scratch.
The point is that yes like you say heavy rail costs are a huge impediment to new construction and most places have or are planning lite rail, but heavy rail is far from dead

[apvbguy]

When adding a transit line in Manhattan, you really don't have many options. Regardless of what other cities are doing, a subway does not make sense for Jacksonville.

do you know NYC? I can offer a half a dozen places where lite rail could and should be built in NYC but that isn't the focus here

[apvbguy]

The Second Avenue Subway project will include a two-track line along Second Avenue from 125th Street to the Financial District in Lower Manhattan. It will also include a connection from Second Avenue through the 63rd Street tunnel to existing tracks for service to West Midtown and Brooklyn. Sixteen new ADA accessible stations will be constructed.

The Second Avenue Subway will reduce overcrowding and delays on the Lexington Avenue line, improving travel for both city and suburban commuters, and provide better access to mass transit for residents of the far East Side of Manhattan. Stations will have a combination of escalators, stairs, and in compliance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, elevator connections from street-level to station mezzanine and from mezzanine to platforms.

Under the current plan, the project will be built in four phases. Phase One will include tunnels from 105th Street and Second Avenue to 63rd Street and Third Avenue, with new stations along Second Avenue at 96th, 86th and 72nd Streets and new entrances to the existing Lexington Av/63 Street Station at 63rd Street and Third Avenue.

It is the Subway equal of the Alameda Corridor in California, a new shortcut on new track. Future plans call for consolidation of several weaker routes onto this corridor. End the end, the project track miles might shrink and passenger miles increase.

OCKLAWAHA

Ock you're right the initial section will tie into that tunnel, once the whole line is completed it will run to lower manhattan and save that one connection it is a stand alone line

[Ocklawaha]

New York City currently has a couple of LRT/Streetcar plans coming up. So does Washington DC, neither of which has had LRT/Streetcar in a long-long time.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

To clear things up, all I meant was you'll be hard pressed to find an American city that does not already have them talking about spending billions to create heavy rail systems.  In most American cities, other forms of rail transit are more feasible.  Sorry for the confusion.

have you ever heard of Los Angeles?
try googling MTA and then search for LA's MTA and see what they've built in the recent past and what is planned.
A bit older but applicable is the DC metro, about 25 years old now, built from scratch.
The point is that yes like you say heavy rail costs are a huge impediment to new construction and most places have or are planning lite rail, but heavy rail is far from dead

LA already has heavy rail.  Its been operating for 15 years.  Why argue for the sake of arguing?

[apvbguy]

New York City currently has a couple of LRT/Streetcar plans coming up. So does Washington DC, neither of which has had LRT/Streetcar in a long-long time.

OCKLAWAHA

what is planned in NYC?

[Ocklawaha]

, what needs to be determined first is what level of service is needed and then if warranted use express buses that pick up in few stops at the beaches and makes a loop around the core.

Uh, JTA already is doing that. In FACT with nice MCI over-the-road motor coaches rather then the less refined city bus fleet.

OCKLAWAHA