The Jacksonville Landing: What Should It Be?

[Noone]

^+1 And be sure to include the key elements of the river and how that is engaged. The Public Trust has been destroyed in this community. Pick and choose the winners and losers. Just ask the Baltimore guys about that one. Environmental Ethics- Vince Seibold. 2014-412 The illegal purchase of two water taxis. 2014-190 and the 900'shortened Southbank Riverwalk. Dozens of other examples. HEY! I have a JEA house on the river to sell you. Palms Fish Camp- A million bucks and you never even open the door. Sign me up!!! Seriously!  Next to a FIND project. We are so LOST?

I was sitting next to Toney Sleiman at the April 2014  noticed meeting that was also attended by Don Redman Dist. 4 and Jim Love Dist. 14 that resulted in the active legislation that is 2014-305 New Docking Rules and penalties. MJ is the only place that is showing the NEW DOWNTOWN DOCKING ZONE MAP. IT is the super duper secret Backroom map that is not being made or shown in any media outlet anywhere. It was not part of the recent 10/30/14 Community First FIND subcommittee meeting of the Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting chaired by Gary Anderson. Why not?

Visit Jacksonville!

is anyone starting to feel sorry for the new guy Aundra Wallace? At the last DIA Board meeting he was going to reach out to Jim Love and John Crescimbeni At Large Group 2 because of 2014-305 at the last RCDPHS committee meeting two weeks ago. Have those meetings taken place?

Just a question. Is the NEW Super Duper Secret Downtown Docking Zone Map a requirement of the submission package for 2014-560 CRA/DIA that has to be approved by council then gets forwarded to the state?

[finehoe]

In the end, the Core will be revitalized when private capital chooses to do it, not when politicians will it.

However, that won't stop the private capital from asking the politicians for subsidies and tax breaks.

[simms3]

^^^as they should.  Urban developments are inherently public-private and much of the risk associated with buying real estate downtown, doing business downtown, or developing additional real estate downtown is born out of policy makers, both elected and appointed but public official driven nonetheless, and so if the city government is going to create all that risk in the first place (almost always unnecessarily), then it should mitigate it partly through incentives or tax breaks.

[pierre]

The Landing is an entirely different animal during big events like FL/GA weekend.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2014/11/sights-and-sounds-from-the-2014georgia-florida.html

Definitely. But I wonder if the Shipyards property (assuming it gets done) replaces the Landing as the central gathering point during events like Fla/Ga.

[fieldafm]

so if the city government is going to create all that risk in the first place (almost always unnecessarily), then it should mitigate it partly through incentives or tax breaks.

There is a lot of truth to this. If the same 30 years of government policies that have crippled downtown were applied to the Skinner family land on the Southside... you would have never seen major corporations like Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Florida Blue, Vistakon, Deutsche Bank, CIT, JP Morgan Chase move to Deerwood Park/Tinseltown area. The St Johns Town Center would have never been a regional retail powerhouse. And you wouldnt have had the residential density (specifically mutli-family) that you do today.

If government had a major hand in causing the problems, then they should also have a hand in correcting them. And that's coming from a pretty libertarian person such as myself, that has had the opprotunity to work on development issues like this over the last 13 years.

Make no mistake, the government has subsidized and incentivized exurban and suburban growth patterns for decades.

[Tacachale]

The Landing is an entirely different animal during big events like FL/GA weekend.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/blog/2014/11/sights-and-sounds-from-the-2014georgia-florida.html

Definitely. But I wonder if the Shipyards property (assuming it gets done) replaces the Landing as the central gathering point during events like Fla/Ga.

I don't see that happening. The one appeal to the Shipyards over anywhere else is it's an empty lot. The current administration likes it because they don't have to deal with all the ancillary issues of a built-out space like Hemming Plaza or the Landing (which is one of the many things the current Special Events office struggles with). They can just throw up county fair-style temporary stages, toilets, mobile vendors, etc., and call it a day. That won't be the case once something goes up on the Shipyards property. If we went with plan for the Landing that didn't keep a viable event space, it's most likely we'd just lose event space in the area altogether.

so if the city government is going to create all that risk in the first place (almost always unnecessarily), then it should mitigate it partly through incentives or tax breaks.

There is a lot of truth to this. If the same 30 years of government policies that have crippled downtown were applied to the Skinner family land on the Southside... you would have never seen major corporations like Merrill Lynch, Bank of America, Florida Blue, Vistakon, Deutsche Bank, CIT, JP Morgan Chase move to Deerwood Park/Tinseltown area. The St Johns Town Center would have never been a regional retail powerhouse. And you wouldnt have had the residential density (specifically mutli-family) that you do today.

If government had a major hand in causing the problems, then they should also have a hand in correcting them. And that's coming from a pretty libertarian person such as myself, that has had the opprotunity to work on development issues like this over the last 13 years.

Make no mistake, the government has subsidized and incentivized exurban and suburban growth patterns for decades.

Very true.

[jaxjaguar]

Does anyone know if the new Sushi House has opened in the Landing? I see on the Landings website it was supposed to open mid-September, but I haven't heard anything about it being open....

[KenFSU]

I'm not sure that type of scene is compatible with the last proposed design showed.

I also question whether restaurants and retail are economically sustainable at the Landing without this type of scene taking place a few times per year. Florida/Georgia, New Year's Eve, the Tree Lighting, etc. drive enough revenue for tenets to help them weather quiet weeknights and slower, non-event weekends. I've read that Hooters typically does $100,000 in receipts during Florida/Georgia weekend alone. Neuter the Landing as an event space, which Sleiman's proposal absolutely did by sticking a vehicular road between any restaurants and bars and the skinny strip of public event space, and I'm not sure how these businesses survive.

[BD51]

Can't say I'm surprised by this...it will probably be another decade before any improvements are made to the Landing.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-12-17/story/its-back-drawing-board-redesign-future-jacksonville-landing

[I-10east]

^^^I'm fine with that versus the mistake of a proposed plan that could've been.

[BD51]

^^^I'm fine with that versus the mistake of a proposed plan that could've been.

I agree, but wish someone would get the "plan" right.

[whyisjohngalt]

What would have to happen for city to rent the landing land to another developer?

Seems like bringing in a new set of eyes - or even developers with successful riverfront developments - would be wise and could really push downtown forward.

[Charles Hunter]

Would have to break the existing million year lease with Sleiman.

[Elwood]

I have to agree. While everyone is frustrated with delays and complete redesigns, being a centerpiece of our city, it's important to "get it right". Otherwise we'll be revisiting this 20 years from now when we are dealing with another underutilized development  sitting on city owned land.

[Marle Brando]

In order for the Landing to truly be successful, the borders of the 'Landing' must be expanded beyond the structure known as 'The Jacksonville Landing'.  The entire waterfront from the Acosta off-ramps at Water St. all the way down to Berkman Phase II should be rebranded as 'The Jacksonville Landing.' This creates more so a district rather than a named building. This would also encompass much more retail and entertainment value than the landing as it currently sits can possibly hold on its own. The Landing (building) has and should always be the icon or central meeting place of Jacksonvillians and cultural events, but the inclusion of an entire district creates that much more of a festive atmosphere and relieves The Landing (building) of trying to be so many more things than it can possibly be at this point. Signage, trolleys, new paths, brick pavements, etc. can be the initial investment. The rebranding the retail, hotels, and biz along the strip likewise..ex. The Hyatt @ The Jacksonville Landing, TUPA @ The Jacksonville Landing, Omni @The Jacksonville Landing, etc.

Also, within this new plan I would like to see the City Hall Annex and Old Courthouse property as an inclusion to this new Jacksonville Landing District. Sooo the landing wants apartments?? Great! There's a City Hall Annex building waiting to wear a new design and welcome residents. Sooo the Landing wants to expand gathering space?? Great! There's a huge Old Courthouse surface lot on the water that's waiting to wear a new green grass coat and bear the weight of a brand-new Waterfront Ampitheatre. This would allow Metropolitan Park to retire its outdated performance venue and make way for an eventual Fairgrounds move to the waterfront in its place...(my own evil plan, lol) . And that Old Courthouse building lot itself?? Would be nice to expand convention center exhibition space and ground floor retail in a brand new building, or how about an intimate 6screen theater all in the vein of a sort of CityWalk like @ Universal Orlando. It could all be done if this damn city would stop thinking so much in the box and look outwards to create a sense of place rather than concentrate all energy into one single building.