The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[KenFSU]

Comic Sans. Really.

I laughed out loud when I saw the bright yellow "PUBLIC HEARING" title in Comic Sans.

The WingDings must have already been taken...

[urbanlibertarian]

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/08/25/why-toney-sleiman-thinks-his-newest-plans-for-the.html

In their article about Slieman's view on this the Jax Biz Journal's reporter writes "Toney Sleiman's latest vision for the Jacksonville Landing would bring more than 300 apartments with rooftop pools to the city center— an ambitious proposal for a city that's yet to see a successful residential development in its urban core."

Really?  I guess her definition of successful is different than mine.

[thelakelander]

No big deal. Probably a newbie.  There are successful residential developments in the core, like Metropolitan Lofts, that were completed without incentives.

[KenFSU]

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2014/08/25/why-toney-sleiman-thinks-his-newest-plans-for-the.html

In their article about Slieman's view on this the Jax Biz Journal's reporter writes "Toney Sleiman's latest vision for the Jacksonville Landing would bring more than 300 apartments with rooftop pools to the city center— an ambitious proposal for a city that's yet to see a successful residential development in its urban core."

Really?  I guess her definition of successful is different than mine.

In that same article, you can get another small glimpse at a sketch from Sleiman's Landing plan.

The fountain looks like it effectively cuts the greenspace in half.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I really don't know why most of us are seemingly surprised. 

This is the same CC and mayor that had a difficult time being convinced that this:



was a bad idea.  And with all the money they saved by not adding that absolute CF, they're still 'out of funds' to pay for the public art that was originally in the budget.

Now the big plan is to add some generic apartments and limited retail / restaurant options in one of, if not THE, most prime spot in the city.  Not to mention that I would have loved to have been in the room when they decided that their pièce de résistance was a 3-way stop onto a road along the river!

Everyone was like 

[MusicMan]

It won't be funny if this sh@t goes forward.

[KenFSU]

Consensus seems to be that starting over with a largely clean slate is probably a good idea, but that the proposed design is going to need a lot of work. If nothing else, it's encouraging to hear so many people speaking out against Sleiman's uninspired vision.

http://members.jacksonville.com/news/metro/2014-08-26/story/jacksonville-landing-proposal-gets-mixed-reviews-plan-wont-make-knees

Jacksonville Landing proposal gets mixed reviews; plan won't make knees weak, expert says

The latest plans for The Jacksonville Landing get mixed reviews from architects and urban planners who like various aspects of it, but say the city must set higher expectations for the design to spark the creation of a "world-class" downtown.

"When you look at great river cities and some of their riverfront developments, your knees get weak," said Chris Flagg, an architect who has participated in brain-storming sessions over the years on how to improve the Landing. "That's the visual impact that I think we have the opportunity to create." The new plan doesn't meet that bar, he said...

Jacksonville architect Ted Pappas called it a "non-remarkable design from a developer with a profit motive. There's nothing wrong with making a profit, but Jacksonville needs to move beyond just what a developer wants. When it's done, it should be something that someone would like to visit...."

Stephen Lovett, a Jacksonville architect who has worked on designs for downtown projects, said he hopes the design will change as the Landing moves through the city's review process. "Is it iconic and world-class? Maybe not today," he said. "We're probably not far enough in the process. So I'd answer it 'no,' but I'd have a huge massive qualifier to that answer – it's still early."

Much more at above link (behind paywall).

[Ocklawaha]

This plan reminds me of a prostate exam in Central California, I was surprised that it really didn't hurt at all... then I realized the doctor had BOTH hands on my shoulders! We're so screwed!

Tony, I actually like the design provided four changes are made:

1. Close the street to traffic, make it a people space. IE: I loved the Grand Funk Concert, as well as many others in the plaza... and that was the first time I hung at the Landing in a LONG..LONG..TIME! You've got that right, don't mess it up.

2.  As per the above, fill the bottom floors on both the downtown side AND the river side with mixed use retail, restaurants, services, (such as a Walgreens and/or Dollar Store) and don't discount coming up with a 'Official Visit Jacksonville/Florida Marine Welcome Station.'

3.  The balconies on the current Landing are nice and shade the lower area's, add them to the new one and expand them in width... Theater style seating possibilities? Maybe so.

4.  Talk to me Tony... bob@metrojacksonville.com (Yes I'm one of the publishers and a retired railroad planner) How about a REAL 1920 VINTAGE STREETCAR with it's own little display 'barn' and in the future running down Water Street to your door? I can make that happen.

REALLY!

That's my .02-cents worth.

[tayana42]

Redevelop the Landing?  Okay, just replace the current leaseholder, Tony Sleiman, who has a proven record of failure. The Landing was busy and popular until he took over.
Open up Laura Street to the River?  Yes. 
Street on the river?  I hope not.
Palm trees? This isn't Palm Beach; plant live oaks.

Where is the inspiring architecture?  Where is the focus on pedestrians and river?  Why is there a proposed marina with finger piers 90 degrees to the swift current?

[ronchamblin]

Jacksonville, and the downtown core, is much more than the landing.  To expect the area of the landing, which occupies a relatively small footprint in the core along the river, to somehow project great impact upon the city and the world, is to expect unrealistically.  If the space available for a new design was perhaps four to six times the current land foot print, then there would be room for a massive project, having many more design options.

Perhaps a larger foot print could be achieved by building out into the river, but that would be quite expensive, and a complicated process in legalities and structure ... not to mention the negative affect on the river itself.

The scale of the concept proposed so far is realistic, accommodates the needs of the area without becoming disney-like, engages the budgets available, and can be massaged to perfection by design improvements over the next few months.

Is the road along the river needed?  Is it necessary for Laura to extend past the roundabout?  Perhaps the road along the river can be removed from the design, and become more green area for walking and relaxing.  In my opinion however, the view down Laura to the river should be retained ... even if not as a road, as it provides a much needed openness, and connects the core to the river.  If the roads are removed, a method of delivering product to restaurants along the river must be devised.   

It might be feasible for the area between the roundabout and the water to be adapted for the occasional concert, perhaps by placing a temporary stage over the fountain, leaving the large concerts for an area to be developed west of the Berkman.

Although the landing is important historically, we might consider that the city core is over 100 city blocks ... that the landing is only one.  The landing has indeed been an icon ... at the center for the most part ... but icons can, by way of hope, be expected to perform unrealistically to achieve important, fundamental objectives, without actually doing so ... and can selfishly limit thinking and investment to their own enhancement, when less obvious needs suffer without attention and investment. 

Therefore, if what I've said so far makes any sense ... given the predicament of an area having not much space within which to work, and given the need for realism and practicality, I vote for further consideration of the rather comfortable design proposed, anticipating its revision toward perfection, and proceeding to its completion.

[Anti redneck]

Worst part is this is the same approach the city took on the Super Bowl. "Oh we don't need to worry about entertainment or fixing things up. Let's just build lots and lots of condos! People will come to Jacksonville then!" Look at how well that worked out. Epic Fail 2.0 is on its way, thanks to Mr. Sleiman.

[thelakelander]

Jacksonville, and the downtown core, is much more than the landing.  To expect the area of the landing, which occupies a relatively small footprint in the core along the river, to somehow project great impact upon the city and the world, is to expect unrealistically.  If the space available for a new design was perhaps four to six times the current land foot print, then there would be room for a massive project, having many more design options.

Ron, I'd argue that the scale is fine and the amount of land is too. We're talking about at least two city blocks in the heart of downtown.  I've seen a lot more piled on less land. At this point, my major concerns are:

1. Architecture. I'm fine with the mix of uses but whatever we eventually end up doing should be iconic and a bit more progressive with that central location and $12 million in incentives. While the existing center has struggled for years, it's hard to argue that it isn't iconic and one of the most popular places in downtown.

As an example, 4th Street Live in Louisville doesn't take up that much space and even has a road running through it. Nevertheless, the compact mix of retail/entertainment, signage and architecture creates a compelling attraction in the heart of that city.








2. The road between the river and buildings. I hope it goes away. One of the best things about the Landing is the waterfront dining and outdoor seating. That's a design element that should be incorporated into the new plans. Circulation for movement of goods is needed but I hope this can be achieved without reestablishing a road that's open on a regular basis throughout the space. I know there are other places that have streets running through them but the connectivity between the bars/restaurants/retail and the public riverfront space should be as seamless and integrated as possible. This integration is one of the good things the Landing has always had going for it.


More space between the river and the buildings is great. However, it would be good to keep this element on the edge of the expanded public element.


3. The waterfront park. Needs to be more interactive. With that much space, it can be a place for special events, like it is now, and a place for around the clock activity. There's lots of great spaces across the country that pack more into smaller spaces. Between the two spaces, where's the stuff like LED video screens/walls, interactive splash fountains, sidewalk cafe style dining, etc.  This is the heart of downtown. We're possibly paying to move a bridge ramp for this. A well designed public space would be a destination in and of itself, funneling business to the adjacent retail.  It also doesn't have to be limited to the Landing's frontage. Pull the underutilized lawn in between Hogan and Pearl into the mix as well and do something really first class.

[tpot]

https://ui.ppjol.com/mobile_stop/1/miamiheraldd/u/Wg21qr6sNTdRgJEvSgcMTw.html?zone=dH8ogmYVh7n4wEfMoZ1r08&mobile=1&entry=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamiherald.com%2F&u=K7VnkqPrIVayeOH6twIWrs&parentURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miamiherald.com%2F2014%2F08%2F26%2F4311077%2Fvoters-give-skyrise-miami-liftoff.html

The latest news on renovations and expansion on Miami's version of The Landing......

[thelakelander]

The festival marketplace concept was a failure. The few that were a success are in dense settings and adjacent to additional pedestrian traffic generators.

[tpot]

My link didn't seem to work, but here are next steps for Miami to redo Bayside, our version of The Landing...

Miami voters on Tuesday overwhelmingly endorsed SkyRise Miami, a swooping observation tower and tourist attraction proposed on a spit of land behind Bayside Marketplace.

The public supported the 1,000-foot tower — coupled with a long-term lease extension for Bayside's operator — by a roughly two-to-one margin. The vote gives developer Jeff Berkowitz the green light to begin construction and triggers a $10 million upfront payment to the city of Miami.

At a campaign party held in a private room at the Hard Rock Cafe at Bayside, Berkowitz declared victory upon the release of only early and absentee voting tallies, which favored the agreement by more than 70 percent.

"It's a mandate," he said. "Up, up and away."

Berkowitz said the SkyRise team would get to work next week reconfiguring utilities that serve the Bayside marina, which are currently under the pier where the tower will be built. The pier will then be excavated and a foundation can be laid, which he said should take about nine months.

He hopes to complete SkyRise — a hairpin-shaped tower with observations decks, an upscale restaurant and a ballroom — by the first half of 2018. He plans high-altitude attractions, such as a Tower of Terror-like ride that drops 50 stories along the tower's shaft. There's also the possibility of a casino if the Legislature ever allows it.

Berkowitz, who says the project will be Miami's Eiffel Tower, has already lined up contractors and begun securing financing for the estimated $400 million project. He says he's investing some of his own millions, and seeking much of the financing from foreign investors through Miami's new EB5 financing center, which swaps visas for local investment.

"As far as I'm concerned this was our last required approval," he said of the referendum.

For General Growth Properties, the operator of Bayside, Tuesday's results extend the terms of its lease with the city to 99 years and require GGP to make at least $27 million in renovations to the 1980s-era shopping center. The operator can also expand the marketplace at 401 Biscayne Blvd.

SkyRise is subletting land from Bayside. Under the agreement with the city, if Berkowitz fails to build the tower, GGP would get a shot. Otherwise, the market's lease will be renegotiated.

The wide margin of passage Tuesday was somewhat expected, with pollsters predicting a nearly 2-to-1 margin of support leading up to the election. Together, Berkowitz and GGP invested more than $300,000 into radio ads and mailers that focused almost entirely on Bayside. Mayor Tomás Regalado helped them campaign.

The renegotiated lease with Bayside was also laced with public incentives, like the $10 million lump sum, increased annual payments and revenue percentages to the city, minority contracting stipulations and annual $200,000 installments to the Liberty City Community Revitalization Trust, a semi-autonomous arm of the city.

"That means the community as a whole will benefit, too," said Cyndy Hill, a 60-year-old Coconut Grove voter who cast her ballot at the Frost Museum of Science.

There was little organized opposition. An online petition to stop the project gathered less than 350 signatures. And while two Miami activists sued to stop the project, both cases were dismissed and the Third District Court of Appeal on Tuesday affirmed a lower court ruling in a case filed by Grove architect Charles Corda.

"The court has spoken," Corda said. "I'm going to wish Mr. Berkowitz good luck."

Voters on Tuesday also approved two charter amendments. One requires a second referendum for developers who fail to secure building permits on public land four years after first getting voters' consent. The other gives Miami's administration the power to lease submerged land directly to upland owners.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/08/26/4311077/voters-give-skyrise-miami-liftoff.html#storylink=cpy