The Jacksonville Landing's Redevelopment Plan

[thelakelander]

I've been out all day. Umm, where's the stage? Is the green structure near Hogan?

What's the plan for special events and how does the retail interact?





I assume this isn't an interactive fountain either? Anyone come across a site plan yet?

[thelakelander]

Is it possible to at least save the iconic sign and install it as a sculptural element within the proposed green space?

[tufsu1]

^ there's already a similar sign out front, so it seems likely

[I-10east]

Similar to what many are saying about the Old Courthouse, I say they they should keep the Landing there until a suitable replacement is in order, and this new Catastrophe Landing just isn't working. I'm still not sold with this whole 'opening up Laura Street crap'. It seems like with such limited space, this parting the Red Sea inspiration is gonna compromise the New Landing's layout very badly. You can forget about any public interior space with the wide open Laura St; Less shelter from the weather, less gathering space, less capacity etc. 

[Anti redneck]

If it kills downtown Jacksonville, you already know they will be on board.

[thelakelander]

^ there's already a similar sign out front, so it seems likely

You mean this little thing?

[ronchamblin]

Oh .... its a fountain at the end of Laura.  I thought it was to be a statue of Stephen Dare ... or maybe Jerry Moran ... or perhaps the two of them standing shoulder to shoulder ... finally reconciling their differences ... friends for eternity 

In any case, I still like the layout, and am pleased that it does not include a large gathering place for huge crowds.  The layout is designed for enjoyment "all" the time .. in the day, and the night, by residents, workers, and casual visitors.  It might be that when one designs a place "optimum" for huge event gatherings for brief moments of use, the nature of it is less welcoming to 24 hour ... every day enjoyment by the causal resident, shopper, or visitor.   

If anybody wants to have a huge event location, how about further east along the river ... within the shipyards or near Metro park?  The idea of having a huge "bowl" into which hundreds are dumped in a claustrophobic manner, as is the case with the current layout, seems rather ... well ... tacky.  But that's just me ... and I'm mentally retarded.   

The "open" feeling along Laura will be welcomed by most, as it offers the pleasant "distant" view.  The human psyche seems comforted by the far distance, as in the mountains or the sea.  The proposed layout allows this great view to anyone along Laura street, all the way to the First Baptist Church.  While standing on Laura one can perceive the splendor of god at one end, and the splendor of the river at the other.

And the new layout will allow me, and Jerry of La Cena, and our customers, to view the river while sitting or standing in front of our establishments.   

[thelakelander]

If anybody wants to have a huge event location, how about further east along the river ... within the shipyards or near Metro park?  The idea of having a huge "bowl" into which hundreds are dumped in a claustrophobic manner, as is the case with the current layout, seems rather ... well ... tacky.  But that's just me ... and I'm mentally retarded.   

The benefit of large crowds in the heart of downtown means more people walking past the front door of downtown businesses. Funneling people who rarely come downtown, to isolated sites where they aren't exposed to local businesses, sort of defeats the idea of clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting. This is what Jax has been doing since the mid-20th century. You don't get vibrancy that way, no matter how much cash taxpayers throw at the problem. 

[InnerCityPressure]

Funneling people who rarely come downtown, to isolated sites where they aren't exposed to local businesses, sort of defeats the idea of clustering complementing uses within a compact pedestrian scale setting.

Exactly.  Go sit in front of Underbelly on Thursday night while 50,000 people drive past to park their cars for the Jags game.  Go sit in front of Chomp Chomp while everyone is on the way home. 

It's like a superhighway of would-be customers.

[KenFSU]

As someone previously mentioned, I'm not even sure you could get away with calling what's left the "Jacksonville Landing."

Maybe, Two Condos and a Fountain.

Featuring the hot new urban greenspace, The Landing Strip at the Intersection.

I'm with ya Ken! I totally agree with your take on this 'new Landing'. They should redo this proposal. They are turning a gathering place (albeit outdated) into a place with very limited space for non-residents. Like you said, they shouldn't even call it the Jacksonville Landing, maybe the Northbank Residencies. 

It takes a lot to anger me, but this redevelopment plan truly has me fired up. Is the Landing in need of a refresh? Absolutely, I think we can all agree on that. But should that refresh involve bulldozing Jacksonville's signature, most iconic event space and replacing it with what looks like a South Florida retirement community? Absolutely not. I literally hate every single aspect of these renderings and even without seeing the full site plan yet, it blows my mind how poorly thought out this all seems to be.

I hate the way Laura Street effectively cuts the Landing in half. Opening up the Landing to downtown has been discussed for years, but this is the first time that I have ever seen that taken to mean opening it up to vehicular traffic. And for what purpose, to funnel Landing residents into Sleiman's parking garages at the expense of pedestrian experience?

I hate the road alongside the river even more. It's truly ridiculous, and says to me that Sleiman is not serious about the Landing being used as an event space any longer. Why else would you cut the narrow strip of public greenspace off from the vendors and restaurants with a road? And why would you further segment that greenspace into two separate halves by sticking a cheesy shopping center fountain (directly across the river from Friendship Fountain, no less) and shrubbery right in the middle?

I hate the tacky Fort Lauderdale palm trees (which get bonus points for blocking the view of the river for restaurants). I hate the private rooftop swimming pools (we've already bankrolled private pools at the stadium). I hate that the "world class" plan has its hopes set on landing a Starbucks and a drug store. I hate the meager 60,000 square foot allotment for retail, restaurants, and bars (a drug store would eat up a quarter of that space alone).

I hate what this does to our skyline, eliminating the iconic, lit "Jacksonville Landing" signage and copper roof and replacing it with two drab shoeboxes that completely block the view of the flared bottom of the Independent Life building from I-95.

Aside from adding up to 500 new downtown residents, which can surely be done to similar effect elsewhere without sacrificing the Landing, I have a hard time finding any other redeeming value in the proposed plan.

The Landing might be dated, but it's one of our few landmarks that is uniquely and identifiably Jacksonville. It's where we celebrated being awarded the Jaguars in 1993. It's where we ring in the New Year, Christmas, and the 4th of July. It's where the national media often sets up shop when a big sporting event is in town. And it's where Florida-Georgia holds an annual party so large that Hooters routinely grosses $100,000 for the weekend. Bringing it into the 21st century is one thing, and something that we have all supported for years. But replacing it entirely with apartments, two roads, and 950 parking spaces? That is a crime against Jacksonville, and an error in judgement that could set downtown back decades. The Landing is the heart of the city, and this is one project we really can't afford to f**k up.

[thelakelander]

Can't Get Right. The story of DT Jax revitalization...

[Anti redneck]

You know what's funny? Of all these "big" plans, a movie theater is not in the plans. An ice skating rink is not in the plans. Something to bring people together is not in the plans. These are nice buildings, but what is going to happen to pedestrian traffic along the riverwalk? What is going to happen to the existing restaurants currently at the landing? What is going to happen to the courtyard? Brown is glorifying these plans, but if I were him, I'd be nailing Sleiman right now!

[Noone]

Just some thoughts and if it has been addressed I haven't read all 15 pages.
1. Is the how many year Parking issue resolved?

2. The Public restroom is now separate and will be a stand alone. Will the Public Restroom space become like RAM, (Only open when RAM is open) Unity Plaza?  and not sure if Hemming Plaza will have a Public Restroom I guess you have the library right there. But is the plan to maybe have a 501-c programming the Public space too and this will include the Public Restroom?

3. Spoke with councilman Jim Love District 14 yesterday because I've been completely ignored by my District 4 representative. Scott Wilson feel free to jump in here. Anyway he indicated that there will be another noticed meeting on 2014-305 new docking Rules and Penalties. Toney Sleiman was at the 4/2/14 noticed meeting and everyone was supportive of the moving and the creation of a new spot for the Foxy Lady. Very Positive. But as we all see by the new docking zone map that was never before Waterways we may want to add back a 10 minute, 30 minute, or both a 10 minute and 30 minute commercial drop off and pick up zone. Why not? What is the position of the St. Johns Riverkeeper? Couldn't tell you.

4. Overstreet like you the marina pictures are nice but that is so far down the road. The current rips in that location. The primary concern especially if a penny of taxpayer money is involved is the immediate Public and Commercial opportunity for everyone to access this property from the St. Johns River an American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new super duper restricted 2014-560 CRA/DIA zone. Public Hearing 8/27/14 at the full Jacksonville city council on 2014-560.

We all want to say VISIT JACKSONVILLE!

A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us

[ronchamblin]

I suppose they could attempt to put "everything" at the "landing" location.  It could become concentrated, much like a black hole.  Do we want this small place to remain the restricted or limited "center" of Jax?  We might begin to look ahead to when the "center" becomes "larger" ... spreading ever so slowly outward from this central point -- without having vacuums within of course. 

Understandably, the city core must have events "now" to draw visitors to the core, but will Jax always be "only" an "event" oriented city?  What about the future need for a balanced and beautiful environment "between" the events and concerts? -- which is 90 percent of the time.  I think that's what the current proposed design is addressing.   

While the landing area might be massaged slightly to accommodate small events or concerts, perhaps along Laura between the buildings, how about making a larger event area next to the collapsed parking garage ... right in front of the wonderful strip of bars where the devil's water is sold?  Why not spread out the event activity a little ... away from the old landing center?  Do we want to continue a "bowl" environment at the landing site?  Why can't the landing area become more than an event place ... so that the area can be enjoyed 24 hours a day, 365 days per year?

Events are imagined and created to be enjoyed for a moment.  We might consider the quality of time and space outside of, and between, those moments.  We live in a time of momentary intense enjoyment, of fast consumption of the superficial, the colorfully contrived candy for the fast and sometimes shallow minds created in our computerized gaming world.

Sadly, there are fewer perceptions of reality within the population ... of the predicament into which we've descended, and continue to descend, as a consequence of our obsessions with the candy created by technology.

While we all enjoy events and hoopla and crowds -- and we must provide a place for these things -- we might also consider providing space for experiencing the real ... a balanced calm ... as shaped by nature, by the natural pressures of an evolving local economy, and by the mix of those who happen to live, work, and visit areas near our city center.

[Anti redneck]

^ Hate to be the pessimist but I don't think that will ever be Jacksonville. They love their Walmarts and strip malls too much, and their idea of a road trip consists of "traveling" to SJTC or St. Augustine.