Study finds gay neighbourhoods ‘straightening’

[finehoe]

I guarantee you this country's most well known gayborhoods are 25-40% gay, if not higher.

And?  The whole point of the Ghaziani's book is that ten years ago the percentage was even higher.  Unless you have statistics disputing that you're just blowing hot air.

[simms3]

Take WeHo.

Census says as of 2010, 13.6% straight married couples, 4.9% straight unmarried couples, and 5.9% gay couple/partnership.

However, a 2002 report indicates that WeHo is 41% gay or bisexual men.

5.9% vs 41%

So if his book is only using data that only tracks couples, it is seriously flawed.  The vast bulk of gay men are not in a marriage or partnership.  And many who are don't even report themselves as such for the obvious political reasons.

If there were data tracking ALL gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people, perhaps the same trend would exist, but I think the strongest gayborhoods are still notably gay societal fortresses of homosexuality.

Gays in NYC and SF and LA live in expensive neighborhoods in expensive cities because they can afford it.  No family nest, and many gays work in perhaps the gayest two industries ever: tech and entertainment.  These are industries that often pay notably well.

[simms3]

I guarantee you this country's most well known gayborhoods are 25-40% gay, if not higher.

And?  The whole point of the Ghaziani's book is that ten years ago the percentage was even higher.  Unless you have statistics disputing that you're just blowing hot air.

No his stats only track COUPLES.  How is this not painfully flawed to you???  Perhaps they are less gay, but not every gay neighborhood is created equal, and gays themselves as a whole demographic are *not tracked or counted by the Census*.  I'm not blowing hot air by saying his study is flawed because the data is incomplete.

[finehoe]

Perhaps they are less gay...

And that is all he is saying, they are less gay.  Anyone who has visited a traditional gay 'hood in the last few years can see this.  Just because you recently discovered the Castro and are thrilled to see the concentration of gay people there, don't mistake that as evidence that it is just as queer as it used to be.

[simms3]

Maybe, maybe not, Finehoe.

Castro MAY be less gay than it was, but it was never even the original gayborhood in SF to begin with, as prior to it that title belonged to Polk Gulch and then the Tenderloin before then.  The Castro as a gayborhood is only really from the 60s/70s onward, and Polk Gulch still remains quite gay (probably ~5 bars remaining in that area).

Quick research confirms that couples in the area have declined and scattered elsewhere, and that rents have increased.  But there is no formal evidence to support that Castro is any "less gay" than it was 10, 20, or 30 years ago, by number, or percentage, of LGBT people.  It's actually a gay tourist destination, similar to WeHo, Palm Springs, Rehoboth Beach, and other places.  Many of the same bars that were open during Harvey Milk's time (i.e. Toad Hall, Midnight Sun, etc) are still open.  Several NEW bars have even opened since I moved here 2 years ago, and none have closed.  Midnight Sun just did a whole renovation that has transformed their space.

The blocks surrounding the recreation center and the Beckerts' home have the highest concentration of gay and lesbian residents in the Castro -- as high as 95 percent, according to an estimate based on 2000 census data by Gary Gates, a senior research fellow at the UCLA School of Law's Williams Institute, which tracks demographic data of gays and lesbians. According to the estimate, the proportion of gay and lesbian residents ranges from about 80 percent to 30 percent elsewhere in the area.

If this is 2000, during the previous tech bubble when rents were also skyrocketing, and these were the statistics, you don't just deflate from those percentages overnight.  I can tell you aren't speaking from experience and are taking this Boystown Chicago based guy's opinion as fact that translates to every single gayborhood.

Another thing considered, the tech industry is very gay.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/big-tech-and-gay-rights-have-evolved-together-93361.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rakeshsharma/2014/06/30/the-gays-and-the-tech-industry-an-inclusive-and-complicated-relationship/

Tech is what is paying well, boosting employment, and leading to skyrocketing rents.  However, many of these new employees gay, who conceivably can afford the rising rents in Castro and adjacent gay-heavy neighborhoods (Mission, Noe, Duboce, Hayes Valley, etc).

There are a lot of factors at play, but none are really officially tracked.  One can only go by truly anecdotal evidence.

Bars shuttering and services closing is one such component of evidence.  There is not evidence of this in *every* gayborhood.

Finally, what hasn't been mentioned is that in some cities, formal gayborhoods that are no longer very gay have given rise to new gayborhoods that are considered gay by locals, but clearly have not received formal designation yet.  NYC and Chicago are examples of this.  Even SF.  So overall, I don't think in the country's largest, gayest cities gayborhoods are disappearing anytime soon.  Maybe some of the traditional ones are, but they are giving rise to others that are filling their place.

As I said before, speaking from a point of experience, acceptance is great, and may lead to a dilution of gayborhoods in cities that were never large bastions, but single horny gay guys are going to do what it takes to find other single horny gay dudes, and picking them out of a crowd of similarly dressed (nowadays) straight dudes in a "straight" or true ratio demographic neighborhood (i.e. 90/10 or 95/5 straight:gay) makes that way too difficult.  For that reason, gay centric areas and gay bars will always exist and serve their purpose.

[finehoe]

...but single horny gay guys are going to do what it takes to find other single horny gay dudes, and picking them out of a crowd of similarly dressed (nowadays) straight dudes in a "straight" or true ratio demographic neighborhood (i.e. 90/10 or 95/5 straight:gay) makes that way too difficult. 

That's what Grindr's for. 

But having a gayborhood is more than about sex.  Anybody who belongs to a minority, be it racial, ethnic, religious, or sexual can tell you that sometimes it just feels oppressive to always be "the only one".  And I think for that reason these enclaves aren't going to disappear anytime soon.

[simms3]

True.

And re: Grindr/Scruff/Distinctt/Tinder etc, it's all still local.  Unless you want to feel like you're paying to have sex with someone, you're going to get on and see if there are any matches within walking distance or quick transit.  So if gays all scatter, even the Grindr model will be a moot point.