Kill the 40-hour Work Week

[finehoe]

"I totally believe we should be living in a time of abundance," said Page. "Think about what we need -- housing, security, education for our kids. The amount of resources and work to do that is pretty small. I'm guessing less than 1%. The idea that everyone needs to work frantically to meet people's needs is not true."

Part of why most people want to work a 40-hour week is more about social needs than financial ones, according to Page.

"A lot of people aren't happy if they don't have something to do," he said. "They need to feel needed and wanted...."

In a theoretical part of the interview, Page also said he would tackle unemployment by trying to get companies to hire two part-time workers instead of one full-timer.

"That way, two people have a part-time job instead of one having a full-time job," said Page. "Most people, if I ask them would you like an extra week of vacation, 100% would raise their hands. Two weeks or a four-day work-week? They'd raise their hands. Most people like working but they also want more time with their families or their interests. We should have a coordinated way to adjust the work week."

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9249587/Google_s_Larry_Page_talks_of_killing_the_40_hour_work_week

[spuwho]

This was France's logic in going to the 32 hour work week. Raise employment rates, improve free time available. Only problem was most employers expected the same work be done in 32 hours instead of 36.  Employees loved the extra free time they got but productivity plummeted. Companies started to exit, car makers shut plants because people didn't want to maintain the same level of work.

Sarkozy pushed it back up and all they got was massive protests and riots in response.

Lesson learned was stop social engineering and let people decide for themselves how much work and free time is enough.

[IrvAdams]

The standard French work week was only 36 hours in the first place? They started out with a good deal there.

[TheCat]

http://www.youtube.com/v/580VyI6hFmo


http://b.3cdn.net/nefoundation/f49406d81b9ed9c977_p1m6ibgje.pdf

[TheCat]

http://www.youtube.com/v/1IMYV31tZZ8

[peestandingup]

Nope, we're all gonna keep acting like half of the stuff we do isn't useless BS & keep creating needless/toxic industry just for the sake of jobs & keeping the antiquated machine in place thoroughly oiled. I'm surprised more people dont stop & question all of this stuff, because I find myself doing it all the time.

My vote is to overhaul the machine so that it works better for us in the 21st century, allowing people who want/need to opt out (or mostly do so) can without starving, being without basic needs, etc & being turned into some homeless outcast (its possible, we just dont do it for reasons mentioned above). There's no money in it for anyone & the system in general for someone to be able to sit around & paint or write music all day in an 100% self-sufficient home growing their own food. Besides, best to start doing it now before we're forced to by means of automation, 3D printing factories & the internet in general.

Good luck though. If I know my country's string-pullers, it'll take things getting way worse (and maybe even a war of some sorts) before we fix it & finally admit that traditional capitalism has ran its course.

[finehoe]

The standard French work week was only 36 hours in the first place? They started out with a good deal there.

No, it was 39.  And the workweek there is now 35, not 32.

Contrary to many stereotypes, 35-hours is "simply a threshold above which overtime or rest days start to kick in", according to French economist Jean-Marie Perbost.

Blue-collar workers are expected to work precisely 35 hours, but the hours white-collar workers (cadres in French) amass each week are not clocked. Like professionals in, say, the United States, most cadres work until the tasks at hand are done. But unlike in the US, French professionals are compensated for the hours they work beyond 35 with rest days, which are negotiated on a company-by-company basis

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20140312-frances-mythic-35-hour-week

[PeeJayEss]

Nope, we're all gonna keep acting like half of the stuff we do isn't useless BS & keep creating needless/toxic industry just for the sake of jobs & keeping the antiquated machine in place thoroughly oiled. I'm surprised more people dont stop & question all of this stuff, because I find myself doing it all the time.

My vote is to overhaul the machine so that it works better for us in the 21st century, allowing people who want/need to opt out (or mostly do so) can without starving, being without basic needs, etc & being turned into some homeless outcast (its possible, we just dont do it for reasons mentioned above). There's no money in it for anyone & the system in general for someone to be able to sit around & paint or write music all day in an 100% self-sufficient home growing their own food. Besides, best to start doing it now before we're forced to by means of automation, 3D printing factories & the internet in general.

Good luck though. If I know my country's string-pullers, it'll take things getting way worse (and maybe even a war of some sorts) before we fix it & finally admit that traditional capitalism has ran its course.

You can do this. Go into the wilderness and provide your own food and shelter. You can survive just fine outside of the "system" if you developed the skills and truly desired to do it. You can even sit around painting if you have any free time after picking/killing your food.

Or are you saying that you want to live in a city and have money and be able to use the internet and buy products, but you don't want to do any work and you just want to enjoy yourself and still somehow have the means to do those things? That utopia doesn't exist.

[MEGATRON]

Nope, we're all gonna keep acting like half of the stuff we do isn't useless BS & keep creating needless/toxic industry just for the sake of jobs & keeping the antiquated machine in place thoroughly oiled. I'm surprised more people dont stop & question all of this stuff, because I find myself doing it all the time.

My vote is to overhaul the machine so that it works better for us in the 21st century, allowing people who want/need to opt out (or mostly do so) can without starving, being without basic needs, etc & being turned into some homeless outcast (its possible, we just dont do it for reasons mentioned above). There's no money in it for anyone & the system in general for someone to be able to sit around & paint or write music all day in an 100% self-sufficient home growing their own food. Besides, best to start doing it now before we're forced to by means of automation, 3D printing factories & the internet in general.

Good luck though. If I know my country's string-pullers, it'll take things getting way worse (and maybe even a war of some sorts) before we fix it & finally admit that traditional capitalism has ran its course.

There is no money in it for someone to sit around and not do anything while be providing basic needs???

[coredumped]

Or are you saying that you want to live in a city and have money and be able to use the internet and buy products, but you don't want to do any work and you just want to enjoy yourself and still somehow have the means to do those things? That utopia doesn't exist.

That utopia DOES exist! See welfare.

[peestandingup]

You guys can't read between the lines very well, can you. I meant that if we really wanted to, on a technological scale, we could be moving everyone towards a more self-sustaining existence with energy, food, etc. Meaning if you couldn't work, or chose to opt out for various other reasons, you wouldn't, you know, die. Or have to rely on some kind of gov assistance (again, full of people pushing the buttons & turning the knobs, doing their little tasks, etc). If you want other luxuries like iPhones, cars, etc, then you're gonna have to have a job for that.

You know how some people choose to live in an RV, be part of the tiny house movement, etc? That's their way of distancing themselves from what I'm talking about. No, I don't mean everyone move into RVs, but just the same conceptual argument & what I'm trying to get across here that I feel is blowing over some people's heads.

And no. I don't consider "opting out" moving to the woods like Grizzly Adams. This isn't pioneer times & I'm pretty sure we can do much better than that in the 21st century. The problem, like I said, is there's no money in making people more sustainable. The system as it is now would never allow it because it needs everyone in it in one way or another.

[PeeJayEss]

Who built the machine that grows, harvests, and prepares your food? Or do you do that yourself? Do you own the land? Do you pay taxes? Do you use roads or get mail? Even if robots are doing those jobs, are robots free? Didn't they cost someone money at some point? Or are we so far along the line of robot development that robots are now building robots and its hard to really tell who made which initial robots since it was so long ago, so no one is really paying for anything.

Do the robots have to pay for fuel? If they break, do they go to robot mechanics? What if the robot mechanics break? Who watches the watchmen?!?

For somewhere who is apparently worried about corruption and loss of self and independence to the "system," I think you are being pretty cavalier about implementing this brave new world completely overrun with slave robots.

[MEGATRON]

You guys can't read between the lines very well, can you. I meant that if we really wanted to, on a technological scale, we could be moving everyone towards a more self-sustaining existence with energy, food, etc. Meaning if you couldn't work, or chose to opt out for various other reasons, you wouldn't, you know, die. Or have to rely on some kind of gov assistance (again, full of people pushing the buttons & turning the knobs, doing their little tasks, etc). If you want other luxuries like iPhones, cars, etc, then you're gonna have to have a job for that.

You know how some people choose to live in an RV, be part of the tiny house movement, etc? That's their way of distancing themselves from what I'm talking about. No, I don't mean everyone move into RVs, but just the same conceptual argument & what I'm trying to get across here that I feel is blowing over some people's heads.

And no. I don't consider "opting out" moving to the woods like Grizzly Adams. This isn't pioneer times & I'm pretty sure we can do much better than that in the 21st century. The problem, like I said, is there's no money in making people more sustainable. The system as it is now would never allow it because it needs everyone in it in one way or another.

I wish this board had an ignore button. Jesus.

[simms3]

Only 40 hours?

[peestandingup]

I wish this board had an ignore button. Jesus.
[/quote]

I know, right? Shame we can't all just offer stellar one-liners piggybacking on others comments, while apparently not being coherent enough to write our own. On any subject.

Why you even bother at all MEGATRON is beyond most people here.

BTW, I made sure to not forget the all caps cause I know that's super cool & junk with the kids.