Parking Meters are holding back Downtown Development

[finehoe]

It's really not that hard to put some coins in the meter...

Johnny, you have to remember where you are my good man.  This is a website/forum populated with folks who believe everything should be free and a living wage is owed to everyone.  Whether it be healthcare, wifi, or parking, there will always be some evil wealthy (preferably white) person who owes it to society to pay for their "stuff".

You could be on to something.  Every on-street parking space could be privatized and auctioned off to the highest bidder.  Only those owning a parking space could park in it.  A free-market utopia would flourish downdown.

[simms3]

We also have to look at this in the context of Jacksonville.  There is almost no reason to go downtown, in Jacksonville.  If we want downtown businesses to succeed and for downtown to grow and flourish, then I agree that on-street parking should be free for 2 hours.

However, in theory there is nothing wrong with meters.  It's a *huge* revenue source for most major cities in this country.  If there is firm reason to go/be downtown, then people will pay to go/be downtown.  But people don't really want to be hassled or to pay to go/be downtown if there is no reason for them to.

That said, carrying change can be seen as both antiquated or necessary.  Many people across this country still carry change for laundry, myself included, so it's no biggie for meters, either.  I do agree with Johnnyliar that overall it is just not that difficult to place a few quarters in a meter.  I'm accustomed to using apps, paying with card, and inserting coins, and despite all of the recent technological advances, if I know I won't be needing to feed the meter again, throwing in coins is *much* faster than either using an app (which is most useful if you need to feed meter remotely) or using a card (which often takes so long).

[edjax]

But if they are downtown looking for a parking space have they not determined at that point they have a reason to go/be downtown?  Or do people just drive around downtown to park for the fun?

[Stephen]

why would anyone go downtown that doesn't work at one of the banks, the courthouse or the jail ?

[edjax]

Assuming you mean during the day when the meters are in force? 

[I-10east]

The anxiety starts with: "Oh no I don't have any quarters!" or "Where can I go to get quarters?"

I paid a meter on Laura St with my check card; First they'll give you an option of paying 1 dollar worth of time (2 hours) but you can lower it to 50 cents worth of time (an hour). Don't get me wrong, I hate meters.

[Apache]

We also have to look at this in the context of Jacksonville.  There is almost no reason to go downtown, in Jacksonville.  If we want downtown businesses to succeed and for downtown to grow and flourish, then I agree that on-street parking should be free for 2 hours.

However, in theory there is nothing wrong with meters.  It's a *huge* revenue source for most major cities in this country.  If there is firm reason to go/be downtown, then people will pay to go/be downtown.  But people don't really want to be hassled or to pay to go/be downtown if there is no reason for them to.

That said, carrying change can be seen as both antiquated or necessary.  Many people across this country still carry change for laundry, myself included, so it's no biggie for meters, either.  I do agree with Johnnyliar that overall it is just not that difficult to place a few quarters in a meter.  I'm accustomed to using apps, paying with card, and inserting coins, and despite all of the recent technological advances, if I know I won't be needing to feed the meter again, throwing in coins is *much* faster than either using an app (which is most useful if you need to feed meter remotely) or using a card (which often takes so long).

I don't know if revenue is a good argument, do you? Aren't meters intended to regulate parking policies rather then a revenue vehicle. I thought I actually read about some lawsuits regarding this.

I do agree though on your first point. I don't go downtown during the week except to go to the courthouse. When I do that, I stop at OTF food truck and head home. And even stopped at Chamblins 2x to buy books strictly to support that biz. I don't go to Chamblins anymore though, Courthouse and Food trucks.

[edjax]

And if they are going to have them it would be nice if they worked.  Went down for One Spark and got there at 4, and needed to feed the meter for two hours.  As luck would have it I actually had 4 quarters to get me the two hours needed until 6. Well my luck ran out when the machine ate the last two quarters without moving the meter.  And yea, i banged on it. Luckily I did not receive a ticket.

[InnerCityPressure]

why would anyone go downtown that doesn't work at one of the banks, the courthouse or the jail ?

Is that a serious question?

[simms3]

^^^Well, there isn't much there.  So yes, serious question probably.  We on this forum are a special group of people who will support downtown out of personal beliefs.  Most people in metro Jax probably really have no reason to go downtown except for Jags games or concerts.  And even downtown isn't the primary office hub of the region, so most people who work in an office in Jax don't even have a reason to come downtown.

Assuming you mean during the day when the meters are in force? 

Are they not in force at all during the evening?  That changes my thoughts a lot...guess I'm just used to metered street parking in 99% of places I ever go.  Or exorbitant garage parking that will break most Jaxsons' banks, Lol.

I don't know if revenue is a good argument, do you? Aren't meters intended to regulate parking policies rather then a revenue vehicle. I thought I actually read about some lawsuits regarding this.

Whatever their intentions legally and on paper, they are a huge source of revenue for cities.  Meters themselves can be a large part of that, but so are tickets for not paying

[simms3]

I think correlation is a big problem with meters.  Someone coming in to go to the courthouse during the day and having meter frustrations might correlate that with an issue that they would have to face 24-7 downtown, so it turns them off even from visiting on weekends or during evenings.

Also, people who have a bad experience with something tend to avoid anything related to that something if at all possible.  Someone with no perception of downtown who comes for the first time and fails to pay or feed a meter properly, receives a ticket, has trouble finding a space because they are used to a different parking environment, etc, may not come back because the one experience just turns them off.

I say the city/SE in general has a bunch of pussies who are fat and lazy and can't figure things out easily and who cringe at paying for stuff they're not accustomed to paying for, but this is the environment most of the Sunbelt has to deal with, the City of Los Angeles included.  Because of the actual people of Jax and the way the city is/functions, Downtown should be a stress-free, hassle-free, pleasant experience.  If that means removing meters, then so be it.

[marksjax]

I am arguing from the small business perspective that any impediment to a customer being able to get to me is a negative. This would apply certainly to any daytime business Downtown but oddly enough the nighttime businesses also are impacted as I see people feeding meters at night quite often.
If you look at it from the customer service aspect the parking meters are without question a negative influence/hindrance.
The city government institutions that are located downtown essentially are charging you a fee for the pleasure of going into their buildings and interacting with a city employee. Most likely because you have to, not because you want to.
The city government's idea of customer service is much different in that respect.

[simms3]

^^^Yea, I feel you.  But honestly, it's this way in most/all major cities.  Jacksonville's downtown doesn't suck because of parking meters.  It sucks because it sucks.

And frankly, for bars, I have piped in on this countless times on this forum, but people who plan on really drinking/doing their thing on a Thurs-Sat night should not be feeding meters, paying a private lot machine, or doing anything with their personal cars AT ALL.  Cabs cabs cabs.  But the fact that 99.99% of Jax bar patrons drive themselves to a bar is indicative of how glued to the car Jaxsons are, not how parking meters are a hindrance to downtown, or why downtown sucks.

The more I think about this issue, the more "bleh" I am on opinion about meters.  I live in a city that easily costs a person $500-$1000/mo just to own/park a car *anywhere* (my apt building has basement parking for $250-$300/mo and my office building has basement parking for $500-$600/mo, meters are ~$2/hr, garages are $30/8+ hrs for day parking, there is a constantly moving street parking in non-metered resi neighborhoods to avoid sweepers, and if you're car is towed it will cost you a minimum of $500 to retrieve IF you can get there within 90 minutes).  I could go on.  So to me owning/driving a car is certainly a privilege, not a right, and certainly not when drinking.

Even in Atlanta, another sunbelt sprawler, I was subject to meters everywhere, and certainly received countless tickets.  It was a hassle and made me mad sometimes, especially when I would see THREE meter maids hustled around my car doing nothing but slapping paper and throwing off mega attitude.  However, it's just a fact of life.

Jacksonville's downtown won't magically improve or get better if meters are gone.  It takes a little more than that

[simms3]

Cabs cabs cabs.  But the fact that 99.99% of Jax bar patrons drive themselves to a bar is indicative of how glued to the car Jaxsons are, not how parking meters are a hindrance to downtown, or why downtown sucks.

And to that point, Mark, do you think drinking and driving laws are a hindrance to customer support of bars?  Frankly, whenever you go out, since you can't drive (legally) and nighttime transit is nonexistent/inconvenient, people should plan to spend $$$ for transportation to get there.  Drinking is not really a right either.

Feeding a meter or paying a $5-10 parking fee is actually cheaper for drinking out at night than springing for a cab, Uber, or anything else.  But in this case, people need to spend the extra money.

It is for this very reason (largely) that in most major cities downtowns aren't even the "go-out" place.  Clubs are in warehouse districts away from resi areas, mostly, and bars are all in the neighborhoods.  Downtown bars are relegated to work-related bars, and special occasion bars, not "neighborhood" bars.  People like the convenience of walking to the bar.  It's the reason that Midtown Manhattan and Lower Manhattan are a lot less lively than their residential counterparts, and why the Loop, and FiDi Boston and FiDi San Francisco are relatively dead compared to other parts of the city.

[marksjax]

simms3,
You make a compelling argument I must admit. And also that many big city downtowns are not the 'go to' spot for nightlife.
And with your background I respect your take on the cost's associated with travel and parking issues in big cities.
So, perhaps the removal of meters here in Jax would not make any difference, that is certainly possible.
But I just can't help but think that doing something/anything bold such as this might help nudge the needle a little bit to the positive side and might spark an interest in casual day trips to explore the downtown area if nothing else in the beginning.
But realistically I get your points and can't argue with the logic.