new residential downtown

[simms3]

As I said before, my primary objective is not necessarily high profit, but it is to discover the best overall draw for the DT core area: especially something to be a draw for as many hours of the day as possible; i. e. ... not a place opening only during lunch. 

The ideal would be to open something not existing in the outlying areas of the city, as this would tend to draw people into to DT.  For example, my bookstore in DT at times will be the "only" place in northeast Florida which has a particular book title ...and on the rare occasion, the title is not on the Internet.  This scenario almost "forces" the customer to drive into the DT core.  Therefore, the more the new operation approaches the "unique" ... the better, as it will promote downtown visits...... which brings up the parking issue. 

A digression ..... I still encounter the problem of "perception" about the "problem" of parking in the DT.  Even today, a customer at my Roosevelt store said ... "Well, I would go to your DT store, but I can't find parking".  The "parking problem", whether real or imagined, is in the mind of many these days, and apparently discourages potential business owners to open in the DT, and discourages "outsiders" from entering the DT to shop or visit.     

I still think the downtown worker is a forgotten demographic.  We always think about either drawing suburbanites/tourists in or creating/catering to a DT residential base, but for any given downtown in America, Lower Manhattan included, the daytime worker comprises by far the largest population, and this will likely not change.  It is a population that needs to be served as well, don't forget about them.

If downtown ever takes off as a downtown, with new residential, new office, etc etc, the Laura St block will be in the heart of the office district moreso than where the bulk of new residential is likely to be built and where people are likely to live.  So bear that in mind.

Also, I mentioned record store on my shortlist almost because you operate a book store already and a coffee shop, and I think a record store could be sort of a hands free operation that you yourself can also run.

I believe downtown can become a vibrant "neighborhood" and business center without totally catering to suburbanites. I'd argue that a primary reason for its struggles comes from placing more priority on attracting suburbanites for short visits than making a place urbanites prefer to live in.

I agree, and furthermore, 2,300 SF is too small a space to have a wide array of unique/one-of-a-kind destination options that would attract suburbanites in the first place.  Also on my list was a bread pudding shop (which is a concept I'm familiar with since there is one near me - was the inspiration for sticking it on the list).  It can be run out of that small square footage and possibly be unique and good enough to create a regional draw.  But the list of things that could even bring suburbanites into that space is small.

I think it's both. There are too few people living in the downtown core for it not to cater to people living outside it, and those people by and large drive. I think everyone agrees the current parking situation can be frustrating regardless of the visitor's mentality. There are certainly ways to improve the current (over)supply of parking to make downtown more user friendly.

On the other hand, there are plenty of people who'll never be satisfied without dedicated parking immediately in front of where they're going. This isn't possible if we want a true urban environment, so there's only so far parking solutions will go. At a point there needs to be an understanding that this is one way an urban environment will differ from a suburban one.

I agree with everything you say here (good quote +1000!).  I also think we're forgetting the downtown worker.  Nobody gives too much thought as to why companies don't see any compelling reason to be in DT Jax, but we do give plenty of thought as to why people don't care to visit or live there.  In my line of work, we do give thought as to why a particular office location is so attractive - and it often has to do with the amenities immediately surrounding the building, and the energy that results.  DT Jax seems like a miserable place to work, so maybe thinking of a use that targets the largest demographic that is there isn't such a horrible idea after all.

[Wacca Pilatka]

What about something specific to Jacksonville & it's history - keepsakes that might cater to locals & travelers?  Vintage items (old maps, books, the prospect of locally re-purposed (think industrial/steampunk) items, windows, doors, office furniture - all with a local influence exclusively.  And obviously, there's no shortage of home grown confections, coffees, BBQ sauce(s), and/or beers as well if you wanted to supplement.  I know that on more than one occasion, I've had folks on the hunt for a memento and/or souvenir beyond the obligatory airport taffy with an alligator on the box.  Local advertising, street signs, salvaged brick pavers, an Emory bike, a coffee mug from the Fox, Old Swisher cigar boxes, vintage postcards, music, photos, etc. etc.

I love this idea.

I have long wanted there to be a store in downtown Jacksonville specializing in antiques and mementos that are specific to the area.  The thought crosses my mind every time I see that Whetstonian house in LaVilla.

I found an Independent Life "There Is No Substitute For Life Insurance" thermometer on EBay a few weeks ago.  Highlight of tax season.

[thelakelander]

I believe downtown can become a vibrant "neighborhood" and business center without totally catering to suburbanites. I'd argue that a primary reason for its struggles comes from placing more priority on attracting suburbanites for short visits than making a place urbanites prefer to live in.

Maybe I'm biased because I am a suburbanite.  Fact of the matter is that although they may be TRYING to cater to suburbanites, its frankly not working.  What are some of the latest developments in trying to cater to suburbanites?

I just see "us" as those who have money to spend, and we're getting sick of Capital Grill and the rest of SJTC.  I believe both urbanites and suburbanites are required for a vibrant DT.  Can it start from those who currently live there?  I'm no expert. 

Unique vibrant urban environments tend to attract suburbanites as well because they offer an atmosphere that can't be duplicated elsewhere. Most unique vibrant urban environments are what they are initially because they become viable mixed-use neighborhoods first. Focus on enhancing the quality of life for those already in and around downtown and you'll soon discover suburbanites will start trickling in on their own to enjoy the end product.

[southsider1015]

I believe downtown can become a vibrant "neighborhood" and business center without totally catering to suburbanites. I'd argue that a primary reason for its struggles comes from placing more priority on attracting suburbanites for short visits than making a place urbanites prefer to live in.

Maybe I'm biased because I am a suburbanite.  Fact of the matter is that although they may be TRYING to cater to suburbanites, its frankly not working.  What are some of the latest developments in trying to cater to suburbanites?

I just see "us" as those who have money to spend, and we're getting sick of Capital Grill and the rest of SJTC.  I believe both urbanites and suburbanites are required for a vibrant DT.  Can it start from those who currently live there?  I'm no expert. 

Unique vibrant urban environments tend to attract suburbanites as well because they offer an atmosphere that can't be duplicated elsewhere. Most unique vibrant urban environments are what they are initially because they become viable mixed-use neighborhoods first. Focus on enhancing the quality of life for those already in and around downtown and you'll soon discover suburbanites will start trickling in on their own to enjoy the end product.

Can't disagree with this.  Sounds spot on.

[BridgeTroll]

I cannot disagree either.  The only problem I see with leaving Jacksonville's suburbia out of the equation is when we start needing money for project x and project y.  Most of our taxpayers are out in suburbia and we need to convince them that the money needed for projects x and y benefit them also.  I think for these projects requiring tax money... we will need suburbia's buy in...

$.02 

[Riverrat]

The idea of a pop-up sounds super cool.

I also LOVE the idea of the "rich" bar...with classic cocktails, classic style, rich mahogany, etc. Bartenders in a vest and bow tie polishing the glasses...a piano player...velvet couches...yes, yes, yes.

It could also be used during the day as more of a restaurant, keeping in the style of a 1920's deli as far as the menu goes. I saw on this site the menu of an old downtown restaurant and was surprised and how differently we eat now...a nod back to that decade would be fun...but I wouldn't get to expansive with the menu. Maybe just have a couple of staples coupled with seasonal options. The daytime menu would be to keep it as a contributing space during the day, but with a primary focus as it being a "rich lounge" at night?

Great ideas flowing. Thanks for doing something great for downtown!

[thelakelander]

I cannot disagree either.  The only problem I see with leaving Jacksonville's suburbia out of the equation is when we start needing money for project x and project y.  Most of our taxpayers are out in suburbia and we need to convince them that the money needed for projects x and y benefit them also.  I think for these projects requiring tax money... we will need suburbia's buy in...

$.02 

I'm not really a fan of asking suburbia to immediately fund downtown projects either, unless they are regional in nature (which would apply to similar projects in suburbia as well). Outside of something like an aquarium meant to lure suburbia to DT, what type of projects can't be initially built without local suburbia having to pay higher taxes?

[edjax]

but suburbia's buy in is not necessarily based upon them funding it. To me their buy in is more on who they put in office, either as mayor or their council member. I am a suburbanite that hugely supports downtown and really one of the main reasons, ok who am i kidding actually the only reason why I voted for Brown.  I will also support the local council candidate that would be most supportive of downtown.

And yea I realize the support of those for downtown is funding per se, but many candidates say what type of actual funding they will provide for downtown but more in generalities as to they want to focus on downtown. So first at least get the suburbanite to get on board with the focus on downtown and they they will hopefully be more eager to fund it.

[Tacachale]

Ron, I have your concept: Third space book bar a la Asheville's Battery Park Book Exchange and Champagne Bar.

You may know about it already, but this is a relatively new (2011 in this location) spot in downtown Asheville. As the name implies, it combines a high end used book store with a fancy wine bar. It's located in the beautiful Grove Arcade building in a fairly upscale, touristy part of Asheville, but I think a "Jaxed up" version of the concept could be a big success in our downtown.

Battery Park Book Exchange is about 2000 square feet in the Grove Arcade, with some outdoor seating as well. The main area includes two bars and a lounge surrounded by book shelves. The rest of the shelves wind back into a maze of additional sections similar to both Chamblins stores. The most interesting feature is that the rest of the tables are located throughout the maze, which customers can reserve to read, converse and enjoy a glass of wine among the books. I didn't see table service but in every other way it was like getting a table in Dos Gatos or Bold Bean.

Here are some pictures from their website. The main lounge in the front of the store:



Befitting Asheville, the bar is serious business. Specialty wines, coffees, and "grazing" items like cheese plates are served, making for a nice change of pace in Beer City USA:



The other tables are all tucked away in the different sections of the bookstore. Some are decorated to fit the section they're in:



Creating a concept along these lines would allow you to build on something you already do very well, and which you're well known for in the community (books). You mentioned before you were thinking of using the space for your rare and high end books; this would be a perfect fit for the book bar (among other things - the Book Exchange seems to focus on hardcovers and more expensive books). I don't know that a "champagne bar" would be a huge hit in downtown Jacksonville right now, but switch it to "craft beer and wine bar" and you'd find your niche without a doubt. Grab a liquor license and add "rich bar cocktails" and you've got yourself a slam dunk. It would allow you to do something cool and new without having to build up an entirely new inventory. However, you could add all sorts of things like the ones everyone has named here to compliment it - art, coffee, maps, local items, science equipment, haberdashery, you name it.

It would also give you a new revenue stream that hits people up for hours after Chamblin's closes. The Book Exchange is open  Monday-Saturday from 11 am to 11 pm, and Sundays from 11 am to 9 pm. Keeping that kind of schedule lets them capture lunchtime and afternoon meeting business, happy hour seekers, and the night time crowd. If you did something like that you'd create a hotspot open most of the day, even if you cut out (say) Sunday and Monday. You'd miss out on breakfast, but then you wouldn't be competing with your own cafe.

Judging by what I saw last weekend, the Book Exchange is popular despite competition from at least three other book stores in Downtown Asheville. When we were there, one group we saw had scheduled a business meeting over coffee in the stacks, and virtually every table throughout the store was reserved for 5 or 6 o'clock. Other places have done the "book bar" concept, but this was easily the coolest I've ever been to. If anyone can do it one better, it's Ron F***ing Chamblin.

[IrvAdams]

^^That wine and bookstore looks seriously cool! That would be a popular destination.

[Keith-N-Jax]

Yes that looks very nice imo.

[ronchamblin]

I'll have to say that the concept of the book exchange / bar / salon looks quite interesting.  Having the tables and chairs (some soft) ... espresso, beer, and wine..... and a much more "open" kind of atmosphere than in my existing stores would produce a unique and interesting ambience.  I suspect that the place would be an excellent meeting place, where one could reserve a table or an area, or it could be simply a place where people can read and have conversation.

As I think out loud ..... The place would, to some degree, remind one of the 16th thru the 19th century salons of Europe one reads about.  Perhaps, to encourage conversation, there could be no Wi-Fi ... maybe not?  The decor could include images of historical figures we've heard of - those who enjoyed the salons in France and elsewhere  before, during, and after the Enlightenment era.

The place could be for conversation and thinking on a level not normally found in most peoples working days; that is, unless one is  engaged in a university environment.  In order to have occasional music, book signings, poetry, or speakers on interesting subjects, we could do the layout so that everything could be moved to the side so as to provide room for chairs/audience, and a podium.  The revenue for the operation would come from the sale of drinks, food, and books.  The books would be limited to histories, classic and modern literature, biographies, philosophy, the humanities, the sciences, etc.  The hours could extend into the evening ... perhaps until 10:00 or 11:00 p.m.

Perhaps too, in the rear, we could have a coffee roaster operation, and a fresh bakery operation, for donuts and pastries.       

Something to think about. Thanks Tacachale.  And thanks everyone for the ideas.  I will read over and digest what you've all been so kind to suggest. 

BTW, for those interested in the process of "doing" a building, I recently had an asbestos survey on the building ($1,050.00).  The report showed a kind of asbestos material under the old carpets (400 sq. ft. or so).  This fact causes me to hire a qualified contractor to remove the carpet (Cost??).  I presume that I cannot, even with respirators and proper clothing, remove the carpet - surely because I could not be trusted to protect the adjacent environment from residual and possibly airborne asbestos. This makes sense, so I am prepared to pay to have it done.
   



 

[vicupstate]

There is a 7/24 French bakery in Charlotte's NoDa district that does very well and I think is in the same SF range as what you  have available.  People drive there from all over the city. The NoDA location is the flagship, but they expanded into Uptown and a SC suburb too.

The concept from Asheville is a good one too. 

http://www.ameliesfrenchbakery.com/

[Tacachale]

Here are some pieces on Batter Park Book Exchange from local publications. Both have some nice photos as well.

Mountain Xpress:
http://www.mountainx.com/article/631/Battery-Park-Book-Exchange-opens-in-new-digs

Battery Park Book Exchange opens in new digs

By Mackensy Lunsford on 02/03/2011 06:17 PM

The new home for the Battery Park Book Exchange is a labyrinthine place, straight out of a scene from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam. The floors are covered in oriental carpets, the walls drenched in rich, warm colors. Mazes of tall bookshelves, filled with volumes on every subject, frame tiny lamp-lit coves, perfect for hiding away with a glass of wine and a rare find.

Owner Thomas Wright recently moved his volumes, wine cellar and gorgeous collection of furniture and sophisticated curio and oddities from the Battery Park Apartments to this brightly lit corner of the Grove Arcade after a parking dispute ruffled some feathers.

And the move seems to have served the champagne bar well. Now that the business has set up shop in the space, it's hard to imagine what else could occupy the admittedly odd arrangement so fully and warmly. "It's an odd space," says manager Emily Krainik. "It's very conducive to a bookstore, but not conducive to a lot of other things."

...

Our State (May 2013):
http://www.ourstate.com/battery-park-book-exchange/

The Battery Park Book Exchange

By Katie Saintsing
Photography by Steven McBride


At this eclectic bookstore in Asheville's Grove Arcade, wine and espresso entice as many customers as the 30,000 gently used books. Here, old and new collide in a rich, decadent decor that resembles the arcade's original purpose: to create an ambiance of extravagance.

...

After a long career in industrial chemical manufacturing and restaurant management, Thomas Wright wanted to do something different. In 2004, he bought a bookstore in Little Switzerland, and in 2009, he started the Battery Park Book Exchange in Asheville's Battery Park Hotel, before moving to the nearby Grove Arcade in 2011. Wright knew that it would take more than books to pay the rent, so he added coffee, wine, and specialty snacks, like cheese and charcuterie, to the store's offerings. The champagne, he says, was inspired by his wife's love of sparkling wines.

Although they started out as a novelty and a financial necessity, the browsing beverages elevate this place. It's not just another used bookstore; it's a sophisticated parlor of a place, with rich, red walls and granite countertops. But the armchairs and ambient lighting make it comfortable, too.

"We try to celebrate literature through hospitality," Wright says. "It's a nice place where books and literature are honored."

And, although he'll tell you it was unintentional, he'll acknowledge that the store honors Asheville. The stately furniture and the old books, the fizzy drinks and the fancy food — they call to mind the old aspirations of a city realized.

...

The Battery Park Book Exchange works so well because of its devotion to the concept and to fitting with the community. Other places have tried a "book bar" concept, but this is hands-down the coolest I've ever seen. Sometimes they're basically just a bar with some books for sale. More often, they're really just book stores that add a bar an as extra revenue stream to support the main focus. The Book Exchange marries both elements perfectly, with the tables scattered through the stacks. Like in Chamblin's, you're never more than a few feet away from books on at least 3 sides, even as you're sipping on your wine or coffee.

Ron, the environment is very much like a salon. It's very well set up for meetings and such. It seems the only reason they do table reservations is because the place gets busy in the evening; during the day there were plenty of tables available. They also host events and readings and people can have special events and parties there. And of course pets are welcome, if not mandatory.

Whatever you decide, it would be cool if you did something to celebrate James Weldon Johnson, Jacksonville's #1 man in education and one of the most impressive people this town and state has ever produced. Author of The Autobiography of an Ex-Colored Man, "Lift Every Voice and Sing", creator of the high school at Stanton - definitely someone I'd like to have a drink with at Chamblin's!


"Lift ev'ry glass to celebrate local heroes."

[JaxNole]

As a Filipino, I don't think Downtown is a place for Asian food or markets -- yet. Everyone who's Asian knows to head to Sandalwood/Kernan/Westside (particularly where Naval families settled) for Southeastern Asian staples and restaurants, Baymeadows for Little India, and the Town Center and maybe Riverside/Avondale for some "sushi/nigiri".

Too many Filipinos, one of the largest minority populations, dismiss Downtown as a dangerous place. I wouldn't expect execution of that business plan to result in anything but a negative ROI and dissolution of the business in less than 6 months.