Improvements in Riverside's 5 Points aim to attract foot traffic

[JayBird]

Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.

I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.

Oh no completely different. Picture one of those with two to three lanes plus entrance and exit lanes. What is in front of the Landing and San Marco has been in suburban developments since the 90s as a way to keep traffic continuously moving but slow it down.

[Josh]

Also in Jersey they developed something much more dangerous than a traffic light intersection. They called it a traffic circle. Thankfully most have now been replaced by huge multi-lane intersections but they used to be nonstop fender bender bumper car tracks.

I guess you haven't been through San Marco or past the Landing recently. Jacksonville just got this technology.

Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.

[Kerry]

One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table).  They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm.  It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.

[JayBird]

One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table).  They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm.  It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.

Is this like what they have on the UNF campus where the crosswalks are brought up to sidewalk level creating like a speed hump? Because I think those are excellent.

[L.P. Hovercraft]

The reason to date why they have not been installed at "The Shoppes" or 5-Points is because they are not historic.....

That map concept above does show something going on at the crosswalk in the middle of Park St, so maybe they're finally coming around.

I hope so.  I get that they're not "historically accurate" for the area (but then neither is a late model Toyota Prius, Harley-Davidson or SUV, right?) and are painted that retina searing bright yellow/green color, but if they educate drivers about pedestrian right-of-way and could potentially save a life I think it would be worth bending the rules a bit to install them in the area. 

They're akin to reflective neon colored bicycle helmets and clothing--an unfortunate fashion side effect of living in a car dominated culture.  May be ugly, but if it can prevent someone from getting hit by a car, worth it in the long run IMO.

[Dog Walker]

The suburban arms and flashing lights 30' in the air in the middle of 5 Points aren't "historic" either.  Proposal is to raise the crosswalk.  Put flashers on reproduction historic posts at eye level on each side and put the pedestrian yield signs in the middle of the crosswalk in the road on the double striped line.

[Kerry]

One item that will help is table-top crosswalks (aka Crosswalk Table or speed table).  They slow down traffic but also let the drivers know they are entering the pedestrian realm.  It also helps create more walkability for elderly, people with strollers, and the handicapped.

Is this like what they have on the UNF campus where the crosswalks are brought up to sidewalk level creating like a speed hump? Because I think those are excellent.

That would be correct.  They also have them at JIA with the yellow flashing lights embedded in them.

[PeeJayEss]

Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.

In popular use, they are. Only a transportation engineer would make the distinction and, even then, only sparingly. And that's just in America, everywhere else roundabout is use exclusively for both or roundabout and circle are used interchangeably.

Nonetheless, the intersections mentioned (NJ) were all first built as "roundabouts" on suburban/rural roads and some later converted to "circles" as development increased in those areas. Being from a town that was known most for its "Circle," I know that it has always been called a "circle," even when it was a roundabout, after when it was a cut-through circle, and still now that it is a rather convoluted partial cloverleaf.

We're no different than New Jersey, we're just at an earlier stage of evolution, and a lower critical mass.

[tufsu1]

Traffic circles and roundabouts are not the same thing.

In popular use, they are. Only a transportation engineer would make the distinction and, even then, only sparingly. And that's just in America, everywhere else roundabout is use exclusively for both or roundabout and circle are used interchangeably.

sorry but no...I'm a planner and know the distinction....and in places like Europe that have many circles and many roundabouts, drivers seem to know the difference in how they operate.

[aintlion]

I'm no planning expert but I am a 5 points resident.  Most of the time when I'm going through 5 Points I'm on my way to 95 S.  Many are.

The problem reminds me of Hollywood Blvd through downtown Hollywood, FL coming in and out of Young Circle.  There's a (sometimes) thriving couple block section of bars, restaurants and shops on the west side of the circle.    It's often very busy and buzzy.  Traffic is very heavy, lots of pedestrians, and people looking for parking.  Sound familiar?

Some years ago they redesigned that commercial stretch making it a divided road with lots of trees, parking, crosswalks and I think a 20MPH speed limit.   They also attempt to divert through traffic off of that street coming going west from the circle over to Dixie Highway where they can then turn to get onto Hollywood Blvd.  Similarly, eastbound traffic is supposed to turn on Dixie to get to the circle.  In theory most of the traffic in the business section is local traffic or people wanting to be there not just pass through.   Just an idea.

If there were a better way to get to 95S I would take it.   Currently the light at Post and Margaret does a horrible job of regulating the traffic flow and it's not linked to the signal at Post and Park (which I think doesn't even have a left turn signal) so that's a worse option today.   Seems like signaling and signage could be improved to encourage more traffic to avoid the 5 points yellow light to avoid more through traffic.

I must add that one of the goals of this and many other "improvement" projects MUST address bicycles and pedestrian access.   I'm sure this has already been brought up I'm just adding my agreement.

[Kerry]

Ask any business in America how routing traffic around them worked out.  There is a reason many cities and towns in America are removing the by-passes, reinstituting two-way streets, and implementing traffic calming techniques to restore economic vibrancy to long-dead commercial districts.

[Badfinger]

Proposal is to raise the crosswalk.  Put flashers on reproduction historic posts at eye level on each side and put the pedestrian yield signs in the middle of the crosswalk in the road on the double striped line.

I really cannot imagine a worse idea for a problem that does not seem to exist.

As someone who uses the crosswalk several times a day every week day, my experience has been one of courteous drivers who stop mostly at their own peril to let me pass, even when I am choosing to wait to cross. 

Really quite unnecessary.

[ChriswUfGator]

Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."

[ben says]

Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."

Chris, please! You're talking "Reasonably"...take that logic elsewhere!

[Badfinger]

Why is everybody pining for solutions to a nonexistent problem? 5 Points is (finally...at long last) working as designed. The absolute last thing we should do is screw with it now. The problem is people aren't used to not having most of the storefronts vacant, and once the district came back, people assume that an entirely normal level of foot and automobile traffic is a "problem."

This whole thing is driven by the same "community advocates" who made a mess of the Mellow Mushroom issue.

At the last meeting, it was stated by one of the business owners that based upon the commissioned traffic study that the incident level at the 5 Points intersection is one of the lowest in the city.  This argument seemed to offer little persuasion to the ring leader of the "let's fix the nonexistent problem" crowd.