Why We Can't Have Nice Things

[IrvAdams]

Jacksonville is actually very well represented in the list of the largest parks in the country (credit Google, etc.). For instance, the Timucuan Ecological and Historic Preserve in Ft. Caroline (and also partially across the river on the Northside off Heckscher drive) is a total of 7,870 acres, making it a top-10 park size-wise in the US. It has miles of walking and biking trails, along with ancient Indian shell mounds and a gorgeous view of the St. Johns. A beautiful place, and free to the public.

[Ocklawaha]

Jacksonville is actually very well represented in the list of the largest parks in the country (credit Google, etc.). For instance, the Timucuan Ecological and Historic Preserve in Ft. Caroline (and also partially across the river on the Northside off Heckscher drive) is a total of 7,870 acres, making it a top-10 park size-wise in the US. It has miles of walking and biking trails, along with ancient Indian shell mounds and a gorgeous view of the St. Johns. A beautiful place, and free to the public.

Agreed, and what would the Timucuan Preserve look like if the city was maintaining it? My guess is a badly designed set from an old Tarzan Movie. I actually have photos of the Yellow Bluff Confederate/Federal artillery earthworks before I embarrassed the city on live TV with dozens of Civil War Reenactors (guys who took it on themselves to clean it up and restore the fencing - IN PERIOD WOOL UNIFORMS).

Kudos to the 1st NY ENGINEERS GAR and the KIRBY SMITH CAMP SCV.

[Tacachale]

^It's the largest city park system with something like 80,000 acres. It includes the city portion of the Timucuan preserve, which is several thousand acres. The Preserve is maintained by a previously unheard of collaboration between the city parks department, NPS, the Florida Department of Environmental Protection, and some individual land owners. The Preservation Project by itself added about 50,000 acres which wouldn't have been saved by the state or NPS. Jacksonville is fairly unique in including tens of thousands of acres of preserve land (which wouldn't be saved by the state or NPS) and more traditional city parks under one department.

As far as urban parks go, it wasn't going to be all one park, but if the Confederate Park/Hogans Creek greenway plan had been completed it would have been fairly large for an urban park. Another good idea that hasn't been followed up on (though finally some progress is being made).

Point being, there was a time, not so long ago, that Jacksonville was considered innovative and trend-setting when it comes to parks. The stuff shown in Bob's article could be fixed tomorrow if the city leadership prioritized it.

[Overstreet]

Wow, a picture of one of the 330+ parks in Jacksonville, the largest PARK SYSTEM IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA and all of a sudden, we need streetcars to them all, so that we can maintain them appropriately?

Wow!

Only so much money to go around in the giant Alvin Brown tax pool, pick what you keep, what goes. Easy to complain, harder to govern. Step up and make a difference, run for city council and make a difference.

I doubt we're anything close to the largest public park system in the country, mtrain. Where did you get that statistic? Our biggest public park is what, metro park at 32 acres? Central Park in New York is, by itself, 843 acres. In fact I'd venture to guess that all of our parks would probably fit within single parks in several other cities, like fairmount in Philadelphia.

Perhaps if you only think downtown, but with Hugenaut at 318, Hanna at 450 and Cecil Recreation center at 1500 acres Central Park seems a little small.

[ChriswUfGator]

Jacksonville is actually very well represented in the list of the largest parks in the country (credit Google, etc.). For instance, the Timucuan Ecological and Historic Preserve in Ft. Caroline (and also partially across the river on the Northside off Heckscher drive) is a total of 7,870 acres, making it a top-10 park size-wise in the US. It has miles of walking and biking trails, along with ancient Indian shell mounds and a gorgeous view of the St. Johns. A beautiful place, and free to the public.

We both know I'm not talking about state nature preserves, we're talking about city parks...you're comparing apples to razorback hogs. And yes, I'd love to see the google link you're referring to, where Jacksonville is allegedly in the top X of cities in the country for its public parks (not national forests, nature preserves, etc., which even then we still don't really rank in, compare anything local with Yellowstone, or the Ocala National Forest). But anyway, let's see the link...

[vicupstate]

Jax has the largest park system in name only.  The Preservation Project put 10,000's of acres into conservation.  Acreage that in nearly all (non-consolidated) cities would NOT even be inside it's city limits and not in municipal ownership.   

That is and was a wonderful thing to do.  However the potential that all of that land holds is not realized, just like the city as a whole.

There is a difference between conservation land and truly usable and accessible park land.  There has been no large scale effort to provide access or park amenities in these areas.   If you only look at the developed part of the city, and not the Greenbelt crescent that encircles the developed areas, the amount of park land is well below the national average.  Some parks are decently maintained (Ortega, San Marco, etc.) but the majority of the city parks are minimally maintained.

When Peyton was in his first term, he proposed sweeping changes and improvements to make the 'largest' park system the 'best' park system.  A study was done which showed Jax spent comparatively very little on parks and recreation.   After the city council saw their park fiefdom might be taken form them, they killed his plan, which he didn't even fight hard for.     

[Tacachale]

Jacksonville's park system is difficult to read because there's little else to compare it to. The bottom line is a lot of the preserve land in Duval County is city park land, not state or national. Much of the Timucuan preserve is the city; Huguenot, Hannah, and the Cecil Recreation Center are all city parks. In fact, most of the Preservation Project land was developable and wouldn't have been saved by the state or the NPS, although it was worth saving.

Jacksonville's conservation efforts are a unique and enviable accomplishment. However, the urban parks don't stack up in comparison. As Vic says at one time there were plans for them that were just as innovative. That's clearly not the focus currently, as can be seen in the article.

[simms3]

I ask 3 questions:

1) What's the real tangible difference between lots of that preservation land, much of which is on the Westside, and simply undeveloped land?  And as a follow-up, did we really need to "preserve" all of that pine forest from mass development?  So far as I can tell, Jax isn't really large or sprawling enough, especially on the Westside, to warrant this as an accomplishment or protection from anything.

2) Does Jacksonville, even in its developed areas, have the population density to really warrant spending more on its parks?  I believe so, but I do think there's a catch 22 - in that most city/urban parks really aren't heavily used, because they are poorly maintained, and maybe they are poorly maintained because nobody uses them to begin with and there's not as much justification to squeeze P&R budget increases into an already tight city budget.

3) Where does a great waterfront park fit into this equation.  I personally believe that the city should pick either the Shipyards or the JEA site on the Southbank to make into a park, or mostly into a park.  And it should spend a lot of money and effort to properly do so.  Jacksonville's waterfront is one of the least accessible in the country, and for a major city that's really not a good thing in the long run for quality of life or for differentiating factors.

For urban environments, what's the difference between a land-locked Atlanta and a waterfront Jacksonville if the public can't easily or freely access the waterfront in Jacksonville?

[Tacachale]

1) The difference is simple: "undeveloped land" that's developable can be developed; preserve land can't. I don't think anyone has ever argued that Jacksonville isn't sprawling enough.

2) The budget is a problem, but the real problem is with the leadership that oversees the department and sets the budget (or in our case, that doesn't set it and makes the City Council do it)

3) Very true and fortunately the city has the land assets to make a go of this. The Southbank Riverwalk project will hopefully help. Though the Shipyards will be developed, any leader with half a wit will make sure a public use element is part of it.

[Buforddawg]

I want to know why the Crown Plaza has done everything in it's power to halt any repairs/replacement of the Riverwalk and why city "Leaders" won't tell them to take a hike and do the replacement.

[spuwho]

Just my two cents.

One of the issues of consolidated government is that when revenue drops, they have to tug on the strings of every budget to protect the constituencies within.

If libraries, parks, transportation to name a few were under their own governing bodies they could manage the constituencies within themselves and not have to pull dough from other city items to maintain at least a status quo.

Is Jacksonville "really bad". No I have seen, lived it, not a chance. Can it do better? Absolutely.

But it takes will and a common agenda. As the Visit Jacksonville chief said so well, "Everyone in Jacksonville is just doing their own thing".

Perhaps it will take a public shaming by a large employer before the will can be found.

[ChriswUfGator]

Perhaps it will take a public shaming by a large employer before the will can be found.

I wish even that would work with this council, but it doesn't. Look at the HRO, you had CSX, Haskell, BlueCross, etc., at the meetings saying "we want this" and the council gave them the middle finger, and at least one of them then went and picked up an award from a right wing church that's not even located in his district. Parks and libraries aren't going to fare any better against this backdrop, I'm afraid.

[thelakelander]

According to the Trust for Public Land ParkScore index, Jax ranks 44 out of the top 50 cities in providing park access to its residents.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jun-national-study-claims-jacksonvilles-parks-need-help



Basically most of our "park" space is preserves and conservation land on the outskirts of the county. We actually blow pretty bad when it comes to park space within the beltway, which is where most of our residents actual live.

[ChriswUfGator]

According to the Trust for Public Land ParkScore index, Jax ranks 44 out of the top 50 cities in providing park access to its residents.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jun-national-study-claims-jacksonvilles-parks-need-help



Basically most of our "park" space is preserves and conservation land on the outskirts of the county. We actually blow pretty bad when it comes to park space within the beltway, which is where most of our residents actual live.

Wait a second, so not only was the claim that our park system is #1 in the country completely wrong, we're actually ranked #44 out of 50? Lol...why do people have this knee-jerk defensive Napoleon complex about how everything around here is the best, greatest, etc.? People need to travel more. Thanks for posting the correct number, lake.

[Noone]

According to the Trust for Public Land ParkScore index, Jax ranks 44 out of the top 50 cities in providing park access to its residents.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-jun-national-study-claims-jacksonvilles-parks-need-help



Basically most of our "park" space is preserves and conservation land on the outskirts of the county. We actually blow pretty bad when it comes to park space within the beltway, which is where most of our residents actual live.

Thanks for the info and when looking at our Blueway space  the river imagine the vibrancy that can happen with immediate legislatively created access especially in our new DIA zone.