Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[Tacachale]

My alma mater, Episcopal High School, was recently renamed Episcopal School of Jacksonville. I've somehow managed to cope.

[thelakelander]

Are you sure, Tacachale?  Maybe the life altering name change just hasn't hit you yet.

[kbhanson3]

I think you may be onto something, Tacachale.  Maybe if they just renamed it to Forest High School the thousands of grads wouldn't even notice, and their lives would remain blissfully unaffected.

[Cheshire Cat]

Gosh, oh golly gee....Did you folks know that there is an online petition to stop the renaming effort of the Nathan B. Forrest School stating that this is reverse discrimination?  lol  Well there is and it is authored by a Skot Wilson, who is also now posting to the FB page of the Museum of Southern History in Jacksonville.  That would be the page on which you can find the online video of the ramblings of a southern preacher who is also a member of a well known hate group.  Mr. Wilson is a fellow well known to City Council who has often delivered to them the same type of racist blather we have seen repeatedly on this thread and been censured for it by a sitting member of council more than once.  Here is the link to the "petition" as well as the pleading introductory from Skot Wilson.  I think it will sound familiar to you guys.  Just saying.... Oh, I particularly like the little notice in the statement that points out this piece was authored by a guy who isn't a racist cause he worked on the campaign to elect Alvin Brown.  This was a real lol moment for me when I read it as Skot Wilson now claims he cannot stand Alvin Brown and in fact is planning to sue him for some tables and chairs that were not returned to him that he loaned to Brown.  You can see his comments about Alvin Brown on Andy Johnson's FB page.  Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.....

http://www.change.org/petitions/duval-county-school-board-prevent-reverse-racism-keep-nathan-bedford-forrest-hs-name?share_id=egOMgTyfZU&utm_campaign=autopublish&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition

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Duval County School Board: Prevent Reverse Racism, Keep Nathan Bedford Forrest HS name.

    Petitioning Duval County School Board

Duval County School Board: Prevent Reverse Racism, Keep Nathan Bedford Forrest HS name.

        Skot Wilson

        Petition by

        Skot Wilson

        Orange Park, FL

We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict.

There is a movement to change the name of Nathan Befored Forrest High School in Jacksonville, Florida, by people who seek to re-write history, based on reverse racism.  Racism is wrong no matter who does it. Nathan B Forrest was a Confederate General who was accused of war crimes against Union soldiers and blacks, but an investigation exonerated him of that charge. He had blacks under his command. He had many blacks attend his funeral. Yes, he was the first Grand Wizard of the KKK, but the KKK was ORIGINALLY formed to promote chivalry and fight against carpet baggers in the Reconstruction, and when racist acts started being done, he left the KKK and distanced himself from them.

Research his speeches using "was Nathan Forrest a racist" as your keyword, and READ HIS SPEECHES. He called for eqality, saying we are all under one flag, and basically we should all put the evils of war and former thinking behind us and move forward together as people all under ONE FLAG!

In contrast, Jacksonville is named after Andrew Jackson, a murderer, bigot, and racist. Even Abraham Lincoln made racist speeches where he wanted to send former slaves back to Africa and saw them as inferior to whites. No one ever says anything, especially blacks, against modern day black racists. Why not? It is not a crime to be white, nor was it for Forrest to speak in favor of racial equity even though his fellow whites jeered and ridiculed him for it.

The truth is that he was ahead of his time, especially for the South, that he was a man of honor, who employed techniques of war that may have been at times brutal, but all war is brutal. Look at the modern racism against Arabs, at what Americans did in Iraq? Abu Ghraib is a blight on this nation. How many war crimes did American perform in Vietnam? We drive cars from Japan, but who remebers Pearl Harbor or the Bataan Death March? How many Mitsubishi cars are driven by people who had Zeros crash into ships and kill their grandfathers?   

This name change effort is nothing more than a witch hunt designed to re-write history and diminish the honor or a Southern General who was a man of honor.

This statement comes from a man who worked for the Alvin Brown campaign electing a black mayor to Jacksonville, who is from the North, and who is NOT a racist. I have suffered ridicule by whites for friendship with blacks and working to elect black candidates in the South, and been called "cracker" when I am the furthest thing from that. If Jacksonville has no issue with being named after Andrew Jackson, and if we have no issue with the image of Lincoln and Jackson on our currency, then what is the issue with the name of a school of a man who was honorable and spoke of equality?

We, therefore, hereby petition the Duval County School Board to retain the name Nathan B. Forrest High School. In the words of Nathan Bedford Forrest:

Forrest's speech to the Independent Order of Pole-Bearers Association July 5, 1875.

"Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. ( Immense applause and laughter.) I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. (Applause.) I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand."

Skot Wilson on Alvin Brown. 

Skot Wilson (afterthought) and Alvin Brown borrowed my furniture (desks/chairs for the election but lent to him, not the campaign), didn't give it back which makes him a thief or a opnarer, and shafted almost everyone who busted ass and got him elected, and then make Humpty Dumpty, his chief of staff, and that wipe almost lost the election for us. Uncle Alvin "Thomas" Brown is somewhat a DINO, almost like (a few other remaining nameless black dems in Duval). He has good intentions, but plays the game too well, and I know he makes deals. Perk of being working for the campaign and being in earshot at the time. Scott Arceneaux helped blow it for us getting Alex Sink in.... yes, ranting..... it's a mixed bag. If I am on the attack, you can bet your ass there's a good reason grounded in facts.
October 23 at 8:25pm ·

[kbhanson3]

NBF's race has no bearing on my opinion that the school should be renamed.  Has anyone ever suggested that as a reason for the change?  Very confused about where the reverse racism is here.

[Cheshire Cat]

NBF's race has no bearing on my opinion that the school should be renamed.  Has anyone ever suggested that as a reason for the change?  Very confused about where the reverse racism is here.

There is no reverse racism.  I think it is time to consider the source of this claim and once having done that dismiss the rhetoric for what it is.  Rhetoric coming from one of the most readily, self aggrandizing personalities to darken the halls of this city and pollute it's social media.  lol 

For those interested to see where this crap is coming from, you can take a look at this thread on Andy Johnson's FB.  Talk about confused, desperate and a hero/savior in his own eyes.  Wow. 

Andy Johnson shared a link.
October 22
So some Republicans are upset that Grayson compares the Tea Party with the KKK. Lenny got so upset that he called Grayson a pig! Well, damn. I say that if the Republlicans now refuse to join the Democrats and everyone else in Jacksonville i...See More

https://www.facebook.com/andy.johnson.7393?fref=ts

[Cheshire Cat]

Not so weird when you understand that Wilson also has a history with the School Board.  Again in his own words from his commentary on Andy's FB page.

Skot Wilson One last thing. Remember I sued the school board over them closing my neighborhood school, Normandy Elementary? The year before they did that, after 47 years of their mascot being a Normandy "Invader", a solider with a parachute, the principal changed it to the Normandy "Stars". So what if the neighborhood, streets, main road, and school was named after the Normandy invasion of D-Day. There was no reason to do that. It didn't promote war like he made the excuse as to why, it honored service in a fight for freedom. Forrest foiught for the CSA 150 years ago. They lost. He joined the KKK when it was still designed to promote chivalry in the reconstruction. He left when that changed. He was a product of his times. Women didn't vote then. After that robber barons and industrialist had children working in dangerous jobs. We still use products from companies that promoted those practices, and work for them. At some point you have to put it in perspective and get past it, and work forward. I would be happier if, instead of working so hard to change the name of the school, people would put that effort into tutoring students and making sure the teachers had the resources and pay they deserve. It seems to me priorities are a little screwed up. Again, stop fighting, start looking for common ground, and apply energy to the positive without hate and resentment and being critical the first thing that gets spouted out. End of story... anybody disagree

[Cheshire Cat]

And the preoccupation with Blacks, well that is classic Wilson.  He got himself into trouble at City Hall by reading one of his creative pieces.  I believe he called it a poem.  Long story short was it gave him the chance to use the words "nigger" and "cracker".  Which ended up with him being shut down.  Here is another glimpse into a mind that supports Nathan B. Forrest.  It's really unsettling and for the record, the snipes at me on this thread likely have to do with the fact that I threw Skot Wilson off of my forum "JaxOutLoud" because of his hateful remarks, name calling and racist attitude.  It is frightening to realize the who and what is being celebrated over at the  Museum Southern History in the hateful pastor, especially seeing as how this is another connection to the Sons of Confederate Veterans that wants the Armory building. The son's currently meet at the Museum on a monthly basis and they have a direct online link from their website to the museum website.  It's one thing to have southern pride and another entirely to hold to the past with an unhealthy fanaticism.  We have seen a bit too much of the fanatic side of the exchange recently.  IMO

Skot Wilson I grew up in Union Beach, New Jersey I really never saw many black people until I went to Keyport High School. K-8 was UB, There was some division, but more conflict between rich/poor towns (rivalries) and Italian/Irish than there ever was between black and white. In general, people there are more accepting you at face value then upon who you are, not what you are, but in moving to and living in the South for 24 years now I see racism on BOTH sides, I was NEVER called a cracker or got snide looks because of color, yet that is the Jax way. .......... ........ ............ ............... Now as far as Forrest, KKK, Republicans, Hypocritical Christians.... Yeah, change it, and make a statement that it shouldn't have been changed in the first place. If it was named Forrest to begin with, that might be legacy, but I do believe it was changed and many aspects of the Southern way, like consolidation to insure there wouldn't be a black mayor, a campaign I did much for hahahahaha, are just regressive. ........... ........... ......... .......... I make a joke to friends that Jax is full of niggers, wiggers, crackers, slackers, yuppies, right wing republican zealots and ultra conservative Christian hypocrites. Don't look at the words I use, look at what I say. There are too many people who perpetuate those definitions and attributes that give rise to the terms used. People here, often and commonly, don't run to help others, don't work towards the social or community good... I just saw something which I vetted about murders in the South, that the rate is way higher and it is usually people in some kind of personal dispute. Many here are so rude, exceptions naturally and country folk maybe better, at least to "their own kind". My other joke is "moving South I moved into a 'tropical depression' and I can't get out". The snide look of someone who, because of how they act in conjunction with is, IS a nigger is not restricted to blacks who hate whites or have a chip on their shoulder, whites who do it to blacks, Mexicans or Arabs are "niggers" as well, because the word, a French word, actually means "ignorant". And bigotry IS ignorant, and if it is offensive, was Forrest so great in his legacy to deserve to be defended? Methinks not! ........ ....... ......... ......... ......... Jacksonville, named after Andrew Jackson, bigot and Indian killer, who abused power at times, and was a murderer, is Jacksonville's namesake, so should we expect anything less than this culturally entrenched slavery and hubris inspired mindset with is legacy for this area? Valhalla is a great name, comes from Norse roots, so there's the "white" to appease the WASPs involved, spin it like that.... (hahaha) ..... ....... ....... ..... I feel sad for the ignorant who act as if it was named like that yesterday for the purpose of offending blacks, and the white who want to retain it because it was named after a clansman. You would think that in 2013 we'd have grown up enough to reach conclusions to debates, compromises, in a reasonable fashion, but the Tea Party types, as well as NAACP radicals, remain with us like a sickness. Our society faces global collapse, and it IS coming make no mistake, and instead of working to solve problems we see shortsightedly; when the oil runs short and gets expensive, and water gets scarce, and food production can't feed the approaching projected 9 billion, and wars and famine and pandemics and food riots get underway, what then? The mindset that makes a name change in a school so hard is the same one that prevents forward progression and real humanity from being expressed. Maybe we should climb back up into the trees until we evolve a little bit more, before we destroy any more species, cause any more pain and suffering. .................... ................ ............... And let's not be so harsh on those who call a spade a spade... sometimes a harsh or brazen and candid statement should be allowed to stand. If you can't be brave enough to call bad, bad, then how can you honor what is good? Honest people are worth much more than those who sugar coat piles of dung. Maybe the problem is skin thickness instead of color....... a thicker skin for expressions would allow the right ones to tag the people who are asswipes and expose for the world to see those who speak out of their ass and are idiots

[Cheshire Cat]

Indeed Stephen.  Amazing the similarity of rhetoric and style.    Ahem......

[JayBird]

It is frightening to realize the who and what is being celebrated over the the Southern History Museum seeing as how this is another manifestation of the Sons of Confederate Veterans that wants the Armory building.

It should be noted that the Sons of the Confederacy, both in what I've read and the few members that I know, do not tolerate any hate speech/actions. As a matter of fact, it would get you immediately banned should you present such opinions as that of the group. In my experience with them, they are trying to educate the public as to what the Confederates truly stood and fought for, which by this post is obviously necessary because it seems a few bad apples corrupted the bunch.

[Cheshire Cat]

It is frightening to realize the who and what is being celebrated over the the Southern History Museum seeing as how this is another manifestation of the Sons of Confederate Veterans that wants the Armory building.

It should be noted that the Sons of the Confederacy, both in what I've read and the few members that I know, do not tolerate any hate speech/actions. As a matter of fact, it would get you immediately banned should you present such opinions as that of the group. In my experience with them, they are trying to educate the public as to what the Confederates truly stood and fought for, which by this post is obviously necessary because it seems a few bad apples corrupted the bunch.

I have been to the museum in the past and to some degree don't feel as though all of the members understand how extremists beliefs have found their way into the group.  For instance, much earlier on this thread I shared the link to a clip the Southern History Museum you tube they have posted featuring a preacher using biblical verses to defend Nathan B. Forrest.  I will go back and get his name and the post number because underneath it I posted just who this preacher was that the MSH people were featuring on their FB page.  Lemme pull it together for everyone again.

[Cheshire Cat]

The video they posted wasn't you tube but from a private site.   You can view it posted twice on their FB page on October 22nd. The pastor is Pastor John Weaver.  There is no mistaking that this man whom they have chosen to feature on their FB page is an extremist and a racist.  Perhaps they can explain the posting and his being featured on their FB page.  My question to them would be if you do not allow racist rhetoric, why do you feature a neo-confederate racist on your page?  I think it is a reasonable question.  If they don't agree with this views or those of other racists, perhaps they should do some house cleaning.  https://www.facebook.com/pages/Museum-of-Southern-History/113483645351888

The pastor they are honoring is a neo-confederate racist.

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/john-weaver

er
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30 New Activists Heading Up the Radical Right (2012)
Date of Birth:
1945
Location:
Fitzgerald, GA.
Ideology:
Neo-Confederate

A minister for more than four decades, John Weaver is a religious mainstay of the racist neo-Confederate movement and a man who has recently become a leading proponent of training Christians for armed battle.

Weaver, who earned a bachelor's in theology from Bob Jones University (which until 2000 banned interracial dating), is the pastor of Freedom Baptist Ministries in Fitzgerald, Ga., and preaches weekly in Waycross, Ga., and Live Oak, Fla. But his interests go way beyond preaching.

For years, Weaver was a leading member of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a hate group that opposes interracial marriage and has described black people as a "retrograde species of humanity." He also long served as chaplain to the Southern heritage group Sons of Confederate Veterans at a time when its leadership was largely controlled by racist extremists.

Weaver was much sought after by extremist groups. In March 2007, for instance, he spoke for five nights at South Pointe Baptist Church in Pelzer, S.C., at a conference sponsored by Christian Exodus. That group was working to get Christians in South Carolina to secede and was led by Cory Burnell, himself a former member of the League of the South (LOS), a neo-secessionist hate group.

"John Weaver is the quintessential Southern preacher, bringing the whole counsel of God with practical application to every area of life," Burnell said at the time. "He teaches the biblical doctrine of interposition as well as any man, and brings powerful illustrations from American history, with touching stories from the First and Second Wars for American independence."

Regardless of whether or not "interposition" is "biblical," it is a doctrine that was used by racist Southern state governments to defend slavery and, later, to try to "nullify" laws and court rulings against segregation. It is also one that the courts have repeatedly ruled unconstitutional.

In April 2011, Weaver made an appearance on "The Political Cesspool," a racist radio program run by James Edwards out of Memphis, Tenn., that has featured a veritable "Who's Who" of the radical right. Others on the show have included former Klan leaders, Holocaust deniers, neo-Nazis and fellow travelers.

Weaver has also taken up weapons in a big way. He recently became a certified instructor for Front Sight, a firearms training institute. At a Georgia LOS meeting in March 2011, he taught members to draw down on an enemy. He taught gun safety at the LOS national convention last July.

Also last year, Weaver spoke at the Church of Kaweah, a militant hate group based in California. Today, the church sells tapes of Weaver's sermons and also features him in a church video entitled, "To Teach Them War."

[Cheshire Cat]

JayBird, the Sons of Confederate Soldiers in Jacksonville, group 1209 has a direct link on their page to the Museum of Southern History.  Just so that you can see the two are linked.  The son's have their monthly meeting at the Museum of Southern History on Herschel.

http://www.scv-kirby-smith.org/

[JayBird]

^ Lol beat me to answer, first it is a YouTube video (http://youtu.be/HDnwpNNiqDQ) but it is an hour and I could stand about the six minutes.

Second, they are NOT affiliated. The link is in a group of other similar links to other like resources/groups. That one chapter uses the space because it is free. They hope to conduct in the armory if they get it.

I have no personal affiliation (and I think my Yankee status would bar me anyway), it just seems that they are easily cast into this large group of racists which I know to be false. That was all. I agree with the whole thing about this crazy guy and the preacher ... They might as well be talking Martians to me because that is the closest comparison to Forrest I hear! But one or two fringe nimrods shouldn't scar what seems to be just group of people with pride in their past.

[Cheshire Cat]

I hear you Jay but that still does not explain why they have the video clip of the "pastor" featured on their FB page.  The man is a well know neo-confederate and racist.  By the way, in the south all of these groups are intertwined lol.  But how would a Yankee know that?    My mother was a Yankee and my dad a Rebel from Mississippi.  My home life was a mix of the north and the south on a daily basis.