Who was Nathan Bedford Forrest?

[Sgarey123]

Not just Confederares.  Southern war heros was the trend. We covered all this some pages back.

[Tacachale]

^You said it, and you're the only one who believes it. The real trend was clearly locally important figures. In fact, those Confederates are pretty much the only "Southern war heroes" listed here who don't have local connections (except for Kirby Smith, who was a local).

[Sgarey123]

I said the trend was Southern military leaders....I even listed them out.

Go back and look.

Fact is you guys are bogged down in the details. The base concept stands strong.

The trend was brought up to provide an alternative to the middle finger.

The ideals of the Civil Rights movement are in jeopardy.  If the people who created them endorse this renaming then they are also dishonoring the Civil Rights movement.

It is a simple concept.  The small Kid has grown up and is now the bully.

[Tacachale]

I just listed every middle and high school in the county, and the trend you're claiming isn't real. The real trend is local figures and places; there are only a few named for regional or national figures with no local tie. Forrest is one of those exceptions.

[Sgarey123]

I posted a list by ps# of every school in service (elementary too) I then provided 9? Schools that fit the criteria. Go back and look. They spanned all decades except the 40s I believe.

Once Again this is a minor detail of this whole conversation. We should focus on the main concept of what is happening.

The concept is simple.  It is that one group is taking away from another!  All of the turmoil and sacrifice and headway made under a banner called Civil rights and peace will mean nothing.  It will have been nothing more than a ploy to promote one groups desires over another. It can not be this way.

The School board is new.  Vitti is new.  They need this controversy to misdirect from their acclimation period. There are rumors of disarray and chaos.  If they approve of this renaming process you can be sure that the rumors are true as they are desperate for the mobs approval. 

If they disapprove of the renaming then everyone will know that they are in control and are making logical long term decisions for the community. They will be promoting harmony and upholding the ideals we have all striven to support for so many years.

I care about this city.  I believe that renaming monuments and things put in place to honor people is bad business for a City.  In truth we all know that things written in stone should remain. Renaming monuments is like destroying burial grounds and headstones.  It is very bad. No true leaders would ever think of doing this unless it was an extreme situation.

I beg the board and Vitti to really think over what they are doing. The problems with our school system are not the names or the mascots.  The problems with our schools are that our communities and parents have lost all control and ownership over the schools they live near. We must rebuild. The first step in that direction should be to honor our past and teach our people why Nathan Bedford Forrest and other Southern leaders deserve a school named after them.  The second will be to allow the people to rally around their future and work together to create an atmosphere for happy and educated children to live.

[Sgarey123]

The Daily record (local paper) internet poll shows 84% disapprove of renaming.

www.jaxdailyrecord.com

This site and paper are purely read by local residents. There is very little chance of national mob being reflected here.

[kbhanson3]

I care about this city.  I believe that renaming monuments and things put in place to honor people is bad business for a City.  In truth we all know that things written in stone should remain. Renaming monuments is like destroying burial grounds and headstones.  It is very bad. No true leaders would ever think of doing this unless it was an extreme situation.

I care about this city too.  It is my birthplace and it is where I am raising my children.  This issue has nothing to do with business for me.  But when it comes to race relations, it is absolutely good business for a city to heal those wounds.  It is very bad for business to appear as though the community is still wrestling with very basic civil rights issues in 2013!  Renaming a school that was originally named after NBF to give the finger to the federal government for forcing desegragation onto the city, i.e., for purely racist reasons, is not whimsical.  It is an extreme situation to use your words.  And no true leader would bow to such nonsensical arguments as you have presented for not renaming the school, essentially "change is bad."  A true leader persuades the masses and guides them to the path of progress, regardless of poll results.  But clearly you are not interested in progress.

[Sgarey123]

This will not be healing. Its more like ripping off a limb and pouring lemon juice on the wound. This will hurt everyone.

It really comes down to whether this new board and sup are working for the local community or if they are working for the people out of town.

[Tacachale]

^Or at least for all the people in town and involved with the school who want the name changed.

[ChriswUfGator]

Fact is you guys are bogged down in the details. The base concept stands strong.

Wait a minute...

First you come on this thread telling everybody else they don't know the history behind something, then when they recount the history (which happens to disprove you) they're getting bogged down in the details? LOL you don't get to have it both ways.

[Sgarey123]

You  have to be kidding me, right? Or are you another groupee on here?

The trend is there. Just go back and read it.  The fact is no one can "prove" the middle finger theory.  I provided a less dramatic and more probable reason. However, they are all theories. 

The campaign for this change is based off an theory that can not be proven, some tainted history, and a survey filled out by people out of town. 

54 years of tradition is not something you cast aside lightly.  Public service has its duties and one of them is to look after the people of the town, alive and dead.

The Base concept of this issue is all that matters though.

[kbhanson3]

I have absolutely no problem or hesitation in casting aside 54 years of tradition of an ill-conceived school name.  Can do it just as easily as the name was chosen.  Next....

[Sgarey123]

Right. You do not care.

You do not empathize with 54 years of graduates. Generations of people will be affected.  Depending on the birth rate you could have 3 generations of the same family attend that school.  That is a big school too. 1800+ people go there.  They probably graduate 500 a year. That is a lot of people.  You are messing with their youth and memories.

It is a very foolish stance. I hope you aren't leading anything in Public Service right now.

Changing the name is wrong.

[Demosthenes]

You have consistently missed the fact that nobody is calling for the renaming of any other confederate named facility. Furthermore, you keep trying to twist history in your favor. History is not black and white. Its nuanced. Forrest was probably not quite the villain some say, but he most certainly was not a hero, particularly on the issue of civil rights.

Renaming seems too easy now. Fucking burn it down. Do it in honor of every black family terrorized by the KKK, for every Caucasian beaten or killed for working to achieve equal rights. For every man and woman who were not allowed to care for one another because there were different races and were threatened or disowned.

No, I don't blame all of that on Forrest. I blame it on thickheaded, backwards yahoos who claim bigotry is in the name of history. The unfortunate thing for Forrest is, biggots make up his fan base.

I now no longer want it renamed becase of him. I want it renamed because of you. Congrats.

[kbhanson3]

You do not empathize with 54 years of graduates. Generations of people will be affected.  Depending on the birth rate you could have 3 generations of the same family attend that school.  That is a big school too. 1800+ people go there.  They probably graduate 500 a year. That is a lot of people.  You are messing with their youth and memories.

Quite the contrary.  I am deeply sorry for those poor people who will have their identities stolen and lives ripped apart by the renaming of their school. I must admit that I'm not quite sure how they will find the strength to go on and live productive lives.  Let's all have a moment of silence in honor of their sacrifice for the greater good.

Okay, sarcasm aside, that is one of the stupidest things I have ever read.  I'm sure there are many grads who oppose the renaming, won't like the new name and some will probably continue to call it Forrest in a childish act of rebellion.  But those concerns just don't stack up against the reasons for renaming, as if that needed to be pointed out.