City Does not Know how it will fund its share of $63 million for Everbank

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

because professional sports isn't an amenity--it's an industry, and one that's been proven to make boatloads ov money.

Also one, as Wacca mentioned, that pours a lot of money and resources back directly into the community.

Not to mention the money that gets recycled from the staff and players in typical spending habits of a resident of the community.

[Wacca Pilatka]

As stated before, if it were an either/or issue with some of the budgetary shortfalls that have been mentioned previously in this thread, then my opinion would take those into account.  Pensions, libraries, schools, etc... are not relevant in this discussion.

None of this particularly matters, of course, when people who like to cast football fans as their intellectual inferiors want to mount the high horse of indignation.

Amazing though it may seem, it's possible to enjoy watching football and support the arts, museums, and local libraries simultaneously!  Even more shockingly, it's possible to recognize the Jaguars as a community asset, and their departure as a devastating event, even if you don't particularly enjoy watching sports at all!

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

while i make no apologies for my snark and contempt, i wouldn't mind the jaguars beïng here, except that all i've seen from them is a lot ov traffic disruption.  i've seen no good come from them.

oh wait, i thought we were talking about FBC.  oh well, the same thing applies to the jaguars.

[Wacca Pilatka]

while i make no apologies for my snark and contempt, i wouldn't mind them beïng here, except that all i've seen from them is a lot ov traffic disruption.  i've seen no good come from them.

Well, for starters, there's the small matter of Wayne and Delores Weaver having paid for a hospital tower recently.  Is the fact that their names appear on the building sufficient for you, or did you need to witness their drafting the check?

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

....i wouldn't mind the jaguars beïng here, except that all i've seen from them is a lot ov traffic disruption.

Bwahahahahaha.... 

I think your use of "ov" fits perfectly. 

Edit:  I'm done KKH.  I'm sorry, but I don't think I can respond to anything else you post on this thread.  That has got to be the most absolute dumbest reason I've ever heard regarding the Jags. 

I guess the shipping and logistics industry should just take their 'boatloads' of money and go somewhere else as well...

[Cheshire Cat]

Depends on your own POV.

I don't really see a need for some of the amenities that the government provides, but have no problem helping pay for them through the money allocated by the taxes I pay.

Why is this any different?

because professional sports isn't an amenity--it's an industry, and one that's been proven to make boatloads ov money.

Yes, the NFL and football are a high stakes industry.  No argument there.  The difference when discussing the stadium and improvements is that the city owns the stadium. 

[Cheshire Cat]

while i make no apologies for my snark and contempt, i wouldn't mind them beïng here, except that all i've seen from them is a lot ov traffic disruption.  i've seen no good come from them.

Well, for starters, there's the small matter of Wayne and Delores Weaver having paid for a hospital tower recently.  Is the fact that their names appear on the building sufficient for you, or did you need to witness their drafting the check?

The Weavers have done a lot of wonderful things for Jacksonville as individuals who are very generous to local charities with Dolores recently allotting and additional 52 million to charity.  Having said that though I think there may be a difference between what they did as citizens of Jacksonville and what the team has done to grow Jacksonville.  I think they are two distinctly different things. IMO

[Wacca Pilatka]

The Weavers have done a lot of wonderful things for Jacksonville as individuals who are very generous to local charities with Dolores recently allotting and additional 52 million to charity.  Having said that though I think there may be a difference between what they did as citizens of Jacksonville and what the team has done to grow Jacksonville.  I think they are two distinctly different things. IMO

Understood, though one could make the argument that the Weavers never would have turned their fortune and  charitable inclinations in Jacksonville's direction but for the NFL.

It was more that the tower naming rights made for a convenient sarcastic punch line in response to KKH's steadfast insistence on never having "seen" evidence of the Jaguars' benefit to the community.

[fsquid]

it is the nature of the beast.  You gotta pay to play.

[Cheshire Cat]

The two differences I see are first that a bed tax is not something most Jacksonville citizens pay. That burden is generally on the back of tourists and business visitors.  Second is that the other amenities offered via the city don't total $63 million. 

Not sure if you're meaning to make my point for me, CC, or if you're just clarifying my intentionally vague answers....

Either way, now that the cat is out of the proverbial bag:

We (the city) are using money that is mostly generated by tourism to fund one if it's largest tourism generators.  Seems like a good plan to me, but that's because I have a somewhat vague understanding of how the pot gets split. 

As stated before, if it were an either/or issue with some of the budgetary shortfalls that have been mentioned previously in this thread, then my opinion would take those into account.  Pensions, libraries, schools, etc... are not relevant in this discussion.

Actually as someone who knows how important this game is to fans, including my guys I myself have always found the allure of football a curious fascination.  This of course is perhaps a shortcoming in myself.  lol   I am just reading the opinions and trying to frame them with a few important facts.  One being the bed tax revenue.  I am in the I think a jumbo tron is foolish camp, but the reality is that the city has entered into a number of agreements with the Jaguars which included stadium improvements and it was determined some of the bed tax was to go to the stadium.  Recently we have seen proposals to have the bed tax amount raised to help fund this jumbo tron. I wonder though how smart this is considering the importance of drawing people here as tourists. I think that is where some questions may eventually be asked about what is the best use of our bed tax funding going forward with the understanding that some of this is nailed down by contract.  I am not sure of the exact contract wording or the wording of the bed tax resolutions, but it may be something individuals may want to research.

I think there is another view regarding the Jaguars and the jumbo tron that really has nothing to do with being a fan or not.  There is another group of people who look at priorities for Jacksonville a little bit differently than fans and non fans of the Jags. Their positions is simply one that asks if we are going to use taxpayer money to improve our city owned properties a jumbo tron is not seen as an essential because it isn't.  lol  Right now this will come down to what the Jags have in their contracts with the city and what the city has agreed to cover when it comes to the stadium that they own. 

[Wacca Pilatka]

Absolutely, Diane.  That would be a very reasonable discussion.  E.g., upthread when the discussion branched into whether it were more sensible to use the bed tax funds toward a convention center vs. stadium improvements.  A legitimate, logical debate.

Where this discussion became unreasonable was when people instead decided to manufacture a stadia vs. libraries debate, borne of the smug, condescending assumption that football fans are morons diametrically opposed to education and arts funding, and that any funding toward stadium improvements therefore must be to the detriment of essential city services.

So secure were they in their intellectual superiority that they couldn't even be bothered to recognize what the actual terms of the debate are.  I mean, why get the facts when one has the opportunity to smirk and feel good about oneself while calling football fans mentally ill?

Thank you for bringing the discussion back to reality.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

CC, as usual, I appreciate your clarity when conveying thoughts.

Off of the top of my head, there are several changes and upgrades being made to the stadium.  The jumbotron is only a piece of the larger project, but (figuratively and literally) it stands out the most and attracts the most attention. 

I've heard about increasing the bed tax.  And, on here, I've read about the bed tax also being used to fund other projects, such as a convention center.  I also (vaguely) remember that these upgrades are included and in addition to our typical stadium maintenance, and there's pressure coming from more than the Jaguars about using this time to upgrade several things in order to attract more and larger NCAA events. 

Without going back through and doing a bit of re-research, I won't foray much deeper into any of it, because we both know that if I get a $ figure wrong or mis-type something, it will invalidate my entire argument.  Lol. 

I suppose I should consider myself blessed knowing that I have someone with a JD and over 50 years law experience proofreading for me....   (<------   again, sarcasm.)   

[Cheshire Cat]

The Weavers have done a lot of wonderful things for Jacksonville as individuals who are very generous to local charities with Dolores recently allotting and additional 52 million to charity.  Having said that though I think there may be a difference between what they did as citizens of Jacksonville and what the team has done to grow Jacksonville.  I think they are two distinctly different things. IMO

Understood, though one could make the argument that the Weavers never would have turned their fortune and  charitable inclinations in Jacksonville's direction but for the NFL.

It was more that the tower naming rights made for a convenient sarcastic punch line in response to KKH's steadfast insistence on never having "seen" evidence of the Jaguars' benefit to the community.

The Weavers had already turned their fortune before they bought the Jags just had Mr. Khan.  No doubt owning the Jag's did turn a great profit for the Weavers in the long run. 

To the question of what the Jags have done to improve the community it is my opinion that the community was perhaps oversold on the impact of the team on their city as well as what the resulting impact of the Superbowl was to be. None of those promised downtown businesses manifested.    Now a few years down the road some folks are asking just how has the team helped to grown Jacksonville and it's a fair question I think.  We do know that in spite of the team continuing to play under par the franchise continues to become more and more valuable which proves out Khan's business sense.  But we have yet to see the growth in tax base and the core that folks were hoping for.  Perhaps the views would be different if our team was winning.  lol

Having said all of this, I do think we will see some of the desired growth locally with Khan now owning the team.  First, he has invested in the Laura Street Trio and it is being said that the trio focus will be themed around football.  Secondly, Khan realized it was a good thing to put money into One Spark which was an amazing success and will grow again this year.  Third, Khan is already talking about the Shipyards and some sort of development there.  He is on record as saying he has a bunch of ideas for the parcel.  This will turn out to be a good thing for Jacksonville if he goes forward with a development and I believe he will.  Lastly, even before Khan, there is no denying that having the Jag's helped put Jacksonville, Florida on the international map.  I think what the citizens and fans would love now is for that worldwide focus on Jacksonville to be one heightened by a winning team. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I've taken the liberty of summing up everything that you just said into one cliched statement for the tl;dr crowd...

Winning cures all!

Hope you don't mind. 

[Cheshire Cat]

You guys posted fast!  lol  My post above was being typed in advance of your last two responses.  Thanks for you positive words guys.