Edward Snowden Traitor or Whistleblower?

[Cheshire Cat]

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

I would enjoy seeing this answered as well. 

[ben says]

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

May have something to do w/ our role as world police.

Bombing villages via drones. Killing children. Our presence in every place with a backyard.

Here's a mental exercise: pretend there are 40,000 Iranian soldiers walking around Jacksonville. Last week a school was bombed. Oh, and they're here scoping out a potential natural resource. Lots of contractors/profiteers walking around too.

Sounds fun!!!!

[BridgeTroll]

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

May have something to do w/ our role as world police.

Bombing villages via drones. Killing children. Our presence in every place with a backyard.

Here's a mental exercise: pretend there are 40,000 Iranian soldiers walking around Jacksonville. Last week a school was bombed. Oh, and they're here scoping out a potential natural resource. Lots of contractors/profiteers walking around too.

Sounds fun!!!!

How mean of Mr Obama... randomly picking out villages chock full of children and bombing it.  Seems pretty unreasonable and downright savage...

[ben says]

It's not a partisan issue, BT.

Your failure of putting yourself in someone else's collective shoe is quite believable, coming from you.

[BridgeTroll]

It's not a partisan issue, BT.

Your failure of putting yourself in someone else's collective shoe is quite believable, coming from you.

You are correct... it is not... nor was I being partisan.  Why is the president just randomly killing children?

[BridgeTroll]

It's not a partisan issue, BT.

Your failure of putting yourself in someone else's collective shoe is quite believable, coming from you.

You are correct... it is not... nor was I being partisan.  Why is the president just randomly killing children?

I'll help you Ben... the answer is... HE ISNT! 

[Cheshire Cat]

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

May have something to do w/ our role as world police.

Bombing villages via drones. Killing children. Our presence in every place with a backyard.

Here's a mental exercise: pretend there are 40,000 Iranian soldiers walking around Jacksonville. Last week a school was bombed. Oh, and they're here scoping out a potential natural resource. Lots of contractors/profiteers walking around too.

Sounds fun!!!!

I would agree that there are other countries who don't cotton to us being the worlds police as do many American's, including myself.  I want to make sure you understand the tenor of my next comment as not meant to insult but rather as to the reality of terrorism.  Terrorists and terrorism is something that happens world wide, has for ages and the reasons for it are as different as is the madness in the minds of those who perpetrate it. 

What is happening here, in the U.S. is a direct response to 9/11 and the outrage that it happened here, to us in America shocked the world.  The American people not only blamed the terrorists themselves but blamed the U.S. intelligence agencies for allowing it to happen.  We wanted Bin Laden dead along with all of his followers and we demanded that the government do a better job of stopping terrorists from repeating such actions on our own soil ever again.  As a result the separate U.S. security agencies began to work together.  Some plots were discovered and the
American people applauded.  Ben Laden was killed and the American people applauded.  U.S. intelligence then began to go about the business of ferreting out terrorist "cells" here, which again we as a people would want them to do.  However another ugly truth about terrorism and terrorists has come to light which is that we grown them at home.  Timothy McVeigh for example or the officer in our own service who blew away fellow soldiers and there are more like stories. 

Back during WWII the inflamed fear of the U.S. caused American born citizens of Japanese descent to be rounded up and put into camps.  They all became suspect and their rights as Americans evaporated.  After the war we as a country look back at this insult to fellow Americans and marvel.  It was fear and suspicion then that cause the government to take such actions and it is fear in tandem with righteous indignation that is driving our government right now to explain and excuse their intrusion into the lives of all Americans.  When all of our rights to privacy are being violated it is a clear indicator that an overzealous government has gone to far.  That is the tipping point where the government in it's determination as lost sight of the bigger picture which is our right to privacy and security in our own homes.  That then becomes its own sort of terrorism. 

[ben says]

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

May have something to do w/ our role as world police.

Bombing villages via drones. Killing children. Our presence in every place with a backyard.

Here's a mental exercise: pretend there are 40,000 Iranian soldiers walking around Jacksonville. Last week a school was bombed. Oh, and they're here scoping out a potential natural resource. Lots of contractors/profiteers walking around too.

Sounds fun!!!!

I would agree that there are other countries who don't cotton to us being the worlds police as do many American's, including myself.  I want to make sure you understand the tenor of my next comment as not meant to insult but rather as to the reality of terrorism.  Terrorists and terrorism is something that happens world wide, has for ages and the reasons for it are as different as is the madness in the minds of those who perpetrate it. 

What is happening here, in the U.S. is a direct response to 9/11 and the outrage that it happened here, to us in America shocked the world.  The American people not only blamed the terrorists themselves but blamed the U.S. intelligence agencies for allowing it to happen.  We wanted Bin Laden dead along with all of his followers and we demanded that the government do a better job of stopping terrorists from repeating such actions on our own soil ever again.  As a result the separate U.S. security agencies began to work together.  Some plots were discovered and the
American people applauded.  Ben Laden was killed and the American people applauded.  U.S. intelligence then began to go about the business of ferreting out terrorist "cells" here, which again we as a people would want them to do.  However another ugly truth about terrorism and terrorists has come to light which is that we grown them at home.  Timothy McVeigh for example or the officer in our own service who blew away fellow soldiers and there are more like stories. 

Back during WWII the inflamed fear of the U.S. caused American born citizens of Japanese descent to be rounded up and put into camps.  They all became suspect and their rights as Americans evaporated.  After the war we as a country look back at this insult to fellow Americans and marvel.  It was fear and suspicion then that cause the government to take such actions and it is fear in tandem with righteous indignation that is driving our government right now to explain and excuse their intrusion into the lives of all Americans.  When all of our rights to privacy are being violated it is a clear indicator that an overzealous government has gone to far.  That is the tipping point where the government in it's determination as lost sight of the bigger picture which is our right to privacy and security in our own homes.  That then becomes its own sort of terrorism. 

But what is 9/11 in response to?

And let's not point to Tim McVeigh with the whole "see!" thing. Yeah, you're right, there's always been terrorism. But what about terrorism that produces what's going on in the US?

What do you think is creating the terrorists Ben?
Whats the source?

May have something to do w/ our role as world police.

Bombing villages via drones. Killing children. Our presence in every place with a backyard.

Here's a mental exercise: pretend there are 40,000 Iranian soldiers walking around Jacksonville. Last week a school was bombed. Oh, and they're here scoping out a potential natural resource. Lots of contractors/profiteers walking around too.

Sounds fun!!!!

To clarify, you are saying the United States is responsible for Terrorism?

The US isn't responsible for all terrorism in all places. But, yes, it's responsible for the terrorism being discussed in this thread.

[Cheshire Cat]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification. 

[ben says]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification.

It is quite apparent that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of thin air. The history of the US funding and supporting militant Islamic groups (Cyclone) during the Soviet war in Afghanistan had something to do with it. US unquestioning support of Israel. Our actions in Chechnya, Somalia, and Kashmir during the 70s/80s/90s. Our military presence in the Middle East and South Asia. In short, our foreign policy may have had something to do with it.

Terrorists/freedom fighters don't come out of thin air....

Re: homegrown terrorism. There always has been and always will be this sort of nonsense. The question is..what kind of response does it deserve (terrorism in general?). 13+ years of war? Taking off your shoes at the airport? Being spied on by the NSA (to bring this whole thing around). Is our answer really adequate? Are we blowing this out of proportion?

[Cheshire Cat]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification.

It is quite apparent that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of thin air. The history of the US funding and supporting militant Islamic groups (Cyclone) during the Soviet war in Afghanistan had something to do with it. US unquestioning support of Israel. Our actions in Chechnya, Somalia, and Kashmir during the 70s/80s/90s. Our military presence in the Middle East and South Asia. In short, our foreign policy may have had something to do with it.

Terrorists/freedom fighters don't come out of thin air....

It could well be that some terrorists actions are born of anger directed at U.S. policies and involvement.  I would also agree that the funding of militant groups in the past does indeed fly in the face of attempts to stop terrorism.  Having said the above, I don't agree that it is U.S. actions alone or hatred directed at us that fuels all world terrorism.  It's a faulty view in the face of global realities.  For instance, just last week terrorists used a car bomb in Bagdad to kill 50 people.  A couple of weeks back we had terrorists in Kenya kill more than 60 people. The centuries old fight and acts of terrorism between Israel and Palestine did not begin with U.S. involvement. Our country wasn't around when this mess started.  None of this has  anything to do with American policies.  These a just three of innumerable examples that span history.  So no, I don't agree that terrorism is born of American action alone. 

[Cheshire Cat]

You added to your post after I quoted you so to your last statement that homegrown terrorism is nonsense?  Let's break it down. Timothy McVeigh and his partner in crime were both born and bred in America.  They hated American government for their own reasons so they attacked  and blew up an entire government building in Oklahoma killing hundreds of innocent people in the process, including non Americans.  This is pure terrorism  and it began and ended on our soil and was perpetrated by Americans against Americans.  Homegrown terrorism or the concept nonsense?  Hardly, it is a deadly serious reality. 

[BridgeTroll]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification.

It is quite apparent that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of thin air. The history of the US funding and supporting militant Islamic groups (Cyclone) during the Soviet war in Afghanistan had something to do with it. US unquestioning support of Israel. Our actions in Chechnya, Somalia, and Kashmir during the 70s/80s/90s. Our military presence in the Middle East and South Asia. In short, our foreign policy may have had something to do with it.

Terrorists/freedom fighters don't come out of thin air....

Re: homegrown terrorism. There always has been and always will be this sort of nonsense. The question is..what kind of response does it deserve (terrorism in general?). 13+ years of war? Taking off your shoes at the airport? Being spied on by the NSA (to bring this whole thing around). Is our answer really adequate? Are we blowing this out of proportion?

Hmm... maybe Americans are just terminal buttinskies who just have go around the world pissing people off.  I mean the timespan you listed it certainly cannot be attributed to any particular political party or desire for world domination. 

Why would those nice soviets invade Afghanistan?  Why would we help those who wanted them out?  Why would those people then turn on us?  Why do people attack Israel?  Why does Israel attack other countries?  Why do we care what goes on in any of these crappy countries?  It is all a big mystery...

[Cheshire Cat]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification.

It is quite apparent that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of thin air. The history of the US funding and supporting militant Islamic groups (Cyclone) during the Soviet war in Afghanistan had something to do with it. US unquestioning support of Israel. Our actions in Chechnya, Somalia, and Kashmir during the 70s/80s/90s. Our military presence in the Middle East and South Asia. In short, our foreign policy may have had something to do with it.

Terrorists/freedom fighters don't come out of thin air....

Re: homegrown terrorism. There always has been and always will be this sort of nonsense. The question is..what kind of response does it deserve (terrorism in general?). 13+ years of war? Taking off your shoes at the airport? Being spied on by the NSA (to bring this whole thing around). Is our answer really adequate? Are we blowing this out of proportion?

Hmm... maybe Americans are just terminal buttinskies who just have go around the world pissing people off.  I mean the timespan you listed it certainly cannot be attributed to any particular political party or desire for world domination. 

Why would those nice soviets invade Afghanistan?  Why would we help those who wanted them out?  Why would those people then turn on us?  Why do people attack Israel?  Why does Israel attack other countries?  Why do we care what goes on in any of these crappy countries?  It is all a big mystery...

Some of the past and current reasons used are the control of oil supplies, destabilization (whatever that may mean today), alleged chemical weapon caches, humanitarian relief and little things like Haliburton and other corporate interests. etc, etc, etc.  The reality is that the world is tired of U.S. wanting to be dominate world decision making in everything and frankly American's are tired of sending our troops to other countries to fight wars we should not be in.  This became more than apparent after years in Afghanistan and Iraq with nothing solved in the end but resulting in the expenditure of trillions of dollars and billions in rebuilding what we destroyed.  Finally is this military enterprise that we built bigger and better than any other nation that demands to be fed.  I do believe America has reached a juncture where we are being forced to re-evaluate the whys and wheres of our actions at home and in the world.

[peestandingup]

Ben, please clarify what you mean when you ask what is the whole 9/11 thing?   As far as including Tim McVeigh in my statement it was in keeping with my point about home grown terrorism.  Not sure what you are getting at with either statement but welcome your clarification.

It is quite apparent that the 9/11 attacks did not come out of thin air. The history of the US funding and supporting militant Islamic groups (Cyclone) during the Soviet war in Afghanistan had something to do with it. US unquestioning support of Israel. Our actions in Chechnya, Somalia, and Kashmir during the 70s/80s/90s. Our military presence in the Middle East and South Asia. In short, our foreign policy may have had something to do with it.

Terrorists/freedom fighters don't come out of thin air....

Re: homegrown terrorism. There always has been and always will be this sort of nonsense. The question is..what kind of response does it deserve (terrorism in general?). 13+ years of war? Taking off your shoes at the airport? Being spied on by the NSA (to bring this whole thing around). Is our answer really adequate? Are we blowing this out of proportion?

Hmm... maybe Americans are just terminal buttinskies who just have go around the world pissing people off.  I mean the timespan you listed it certainly cannot be attributed to any particular political party or desire for world domination. 

Why would those nice soviets invade Afghanistan?  Why would we help those who wanted them out?  Why would those people then turn on us?  Why do people attack Israel?  Why does Israel attack other countries?  Why do we care what goes on in any of these crappy countries?  It is all a big mystery...

Some of the past and current reasons used are the control of oil supplies, destabilization (whatever that may mean today), alleged chemical weapon caches, humanitarian relief and little things like Haliburton and other corporate interests. etc, etc, etc.  The reality is that the world is tired of U.S. wanting to be dominate world decision making in everything and frankly American's are tired of sending our troops to other countries to fight wars we should not be in.  This became more than apparent after years in Afghanistan and Iraq with nothing solved in the end but resulting in the expenditure of trillions of dollars and billions in rebuilding what we destroyed.  Finally is this military enterprise that we built bigger and better than any other nation that demands to be fed.  I do believe America has reached a juncture where we are being forced to re-evaluate the whys and wheres of our actions at home and in the world.

Its been going on for a long long time & is so deep rooted into our country now that it will literally take either an all out collapse, or civil war itself to break free from it. The war on terror just plays right along in this.

Eisenhower warns us of the military industrial complex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

President John F Kennedy Secret Society Speech
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces

When was the last time you heard a President, who was already elected, say these things?