Edward Snowden Traitor or Whistleblower?

[ChriswUfGator]

Snowden should receive the congressional Medal of Honor, at least if we weren't a society of convenient hypocrites. What he exposed is WRONG, I don't much care who exposed it.

[I-10east]

I-10.  While your statement fits your feelings about "liberal types" what you said just isn't true. Who are liberal types anyway?  Unthinking fools in your view? Lets just be clear about one thing, having a different view of an issue or action does not mean that the view is without value.  It's important to listen to what the other person is saying with some degree of respect and without labels.   That doesn't mean we have to agree but we can agree to disagree without attacking the others level of intelligence.  I actually think the differences in views help to keep us thinking and in the long run perhaps even balanced.  I can tell you that I would not want to live in a world where everyone's thinking was the same.  That would be it's own kind of hell in my opinion. 

I'll respond to your post CC, since my buddy Stephendare's didn't offer any reasoning whatsoever. I totally agree with you that this world would be a boring place if everyone opinions were the same, and differing views help us in the long run. Hell, I'm a victim of that many times on MJ, as for instance, I might not think that a particular old building is worth renovation, while many others disagree. I never intended for my comment to insult anyone's intelligence with my previous comment, and I apologize if I did.

IMO people like Oliver North, or Malala Yousafzai (the Pakistani girl shot by the Taliban) are heroes; IMO opposed to people who compromise the nations security, and are the cause for violent anti-American retribution, like Edward Snowden, and Bradley Manning respectively; I'm sure that many will disagree, and that's okay.

Concerning the whole republican vs democrat, or liberal vs conservative debate, it seems like it's cool to call out conservatives/republicans on MJ, but one is kinda 'crossing the line of MJ' when liberals are called out; They are called trolls, racists etc. I've seen instances like that MANY times on here. BTW, I call out whatever party that needs to be called out, and try to be as reasonable as I can.

[I-10east]

Actually, if you wanna have a real conversation about this, the thing to do is not focus on some individual (like the media is doing on purpose as a distraction, he's irrelevant), but rather the facts/information itself & try to figure out what exactly is happening to our country.

So basically I should just feed into the fear mongering and paranoid-ism, like so many in the country are doing right? No way. BTW, the topic was is he a traitor or not, not "America's Actions, post-Snowden Exposing the NSA". IMO that's a very passive attitude to have towards Snowden PSU. He's suddenly 'unimportant' although he did his best to compromise the nations security; I'll agree with you on one aspect, the chances of the US arresting him is very low, so he's 'irrelevant' in that sense, but I wouldn't try to act as if he didn't cause a giant ripple affect with his actions.

[ben says]

Ben, I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you are suggesting a Isolationist form of Foreign Policy for the US. If thats the case, do you think thats a feasible policy?

Isolationism and intervention...not so far off. http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19251-the-obama-doctrine

[Cheshire Cat]

Stephendare,
Diane, Faye For The Cure and many others have had a far rougher experience on this site discussing their liberal politics intelligently than you have while launching tirades for two solid years because you simply didnt know that 'urbanism' wasnt 'anti suburban'. So please, get off the cross, stop stating your opinions solely in such a way that you are calling other people stupid, start asking people what they mean once in a while before you book a ticket to the moons of uranus and I suspect you will find a very different environment of discussion

I really don't know what this comment is about.  I post the way I speak, directly.  I have also stated that I find online discussions difficult because folks are often left to surmise ones tone and intent.  It is never my intention to call others stupid and if you take a step back and examine your own style of interaction, I think you could be seen as doing the same thing when you converse and I don't think you mean to insult either.

I am not surprised by the verbal jab in the ribs though.  I was wondering when it would come. Stephen for someone whose posting is often combative and could readily be seen as insulting to others it tickles me that you apply the standards and interpretations to my style above and don't recognize that you do the same thing almost on a daily basis in your own posting. Now I realize saying this online may put me in your cross hairs and beg an online tit for tat but I truly hope not.  If I am seen to be doing what you describe above I won't apologize or change my style because there is no intent to insult or affront others. There never is. 

I really don't want to see my words in response to your misinterpretation of my intent to dissolve into one of those dynamics where every subsequent post will be about getting back at someone who urged you take a look in the mirror when it comes to judgments.  Again, no intent to talk down on insult on my part.  It is my way to be direct and concise when I write or speak. I can't change however how others choose to interpret my words or speaking style.

[Cheshire Cat]

Ben, I don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds like you are suggesting a Isolationist form of Foreign Policy for the US. If thats the case, do you think thats a feasible policy?

Isolationism and intervention...not so far off. http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/19251-the-obama-doctrine

I doubt we will ever see the U.S. become isolationist but it may be past time for us to get out of the business of imposing ourselves or views upon the rest of the world.  I honestly believe in spite of how much other countries dislike many of America's attitudes and actions those countries also look to this country for guidance and help when the chips are down.  That is just my opinion.

[Cheshire Cat]

I-10 Concerning the whole republican vs democrat, or liberal vs conservative debate, it seems like it's cool to call out conservatives/republicans on MJ, but one is kinda 'crossing the line of MJ' when liberals are called out; They are called trolls, racists etc. I've seen instances like that MANY times on here. BTW, I call out whatever party that needs to be called out, and try to be as reasonable as I can.

Please don't take my response to you with regard to the use of the word liberal as anything other than a question about what you meant when you said liberal and your point is well taken with regard to comments about conservatives and Republicans. Of course my words are not reflective of the forum as a whole.  I just post here.   I have never been a fan of labels especially when the terms conservative and liberal are thrown out as insults.  (Not saying you did that, which I why I asked what you meant).  To my eyes I think most people don't fit the extremes of beliefs that these terms are sometimes meant to imply.  Most folks generally fall somewhere between the two extremes of thought and that is the place common ground can be found.  For the record, I generally place myself in the in between category.  I have both liberal and conservative views and will readily admit my liberal leanings.  lol  But I am by no means extreme in those views.

[Cheshire Cat]

^ You know what Apache?  You busted me and I was less than honest when making the statement to Stephen about his intent to insult posters.  The truth is I believe that delivering a sound insult is often his intent.  I was simply trying to buffer the words in my response.  That I believe may be the difference in our interactions.  I honestly never mean to insult or demean in my words but learned long ago that there is not a whole lot I can do about what folks "read" into my intentions. Now I suppose I will hear very soon a response to my forum transgression.  Standing by.   lol

[I-10east]

no, your posts are just usually very misinformed.  Please dont try and put yourself into the role of the universal voice of 'conservativism'.  because you arent, and your record of making half baked statements and then not being able to back them up with a single fact for many pages is what you get called out on.  NOT 'conservatives' or 'liberals'.  Just your inability to tell the meaningful difference between the two words.

Additionally, trying to flavor the dismal response to your posts with a general persecution complex is pretty much a cop out.  Either make your points or dont, but please dont make everyone listen to your whining about how no one wants to listen to your whining.

Gardenguy is the polar opposite of the spectrum, with his anti republican tirades and the endless religious bashing, and he gets the same response that your posts get.  It has nothing to do with either of your alleged 'politics'.

Diane, Faye For The Cure and many others have had a far rougher experience on this site discussing their liberal politics intelligently than you have while launching tirades for two solid years because you simply didnt know that 'urbanism' wasnt 'anti suburban'. So please, get off the cross, stop stating your opinions solely in such a way that you are calling other people stupid, start asking people what they mean once in a while before you book a ticket to the moons of uranus and I suspect you will find a very different environment of discussion.

Everything that you said is a complete joke. Did I ever claim to be 'the voice of conservatism'? That's you're problem, always trying to put words in my mouth. Just because I agree with some republican ideas, that makes me a 'conservative'? Talk about someone who's in a bubble. You have never been able to prove that "I don't know the difference between political parties", yet you condescendingly keep on beating that drum; No one says that but you. No one but you calls people 'trolls and racist' for having differing political ideas; I must have struck a nerve when I mentioned that Stephen, right? How bout you pull up YOUR history on that one Stephen, since you're always so quick to do that.

So you're saying that some DON'T insinuate that having something in the suburbs 'takes away from urbanity'? Okay, keep on believing that, I have some land down there in Alligator Alley to sell you. I'm supposedly 'whining' but yet, that's all that you do, and you seem to take it all personal to, SMH....

[Cheshire Cat]

This is just one of the things Edward Snowden exposed and in so doing the exposure forced a government official to reveal that he lied when he said the U.S. was not collecting the phone records of average, law abiding citizens.  To make matters worse, permission has just been granted to continue this dragnet of personal information.  This is alarming!

http://www.mintpressnews.com/secret-fisa-court-extends-nsa-phone-spying/170508/  (click link for full article)

However, as Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.)—who is among a handful of U.S. lawmakers currently drafting respective bills that claim to prohibit the NSA from conducting bulk data collection in the future—made clear that Clapper's nod towards "transparency" was superficial at face value.

"While I appreciate the recent efforts by the Court and the administration to be more transparent, it is clear that transparency alone is not enough," said Leahy.

"There is growing bipartisan consensus that the law itself needs to be changed in order to restrict the ability of the government to collect the phone records of millions of law-abiding Americans," Leahy added.

Clapper, sparked outrage when it was revealed earlier this year that he "outright lied" to the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee when said the NSA does not collect data on U.S. citizens, shortly after the first NSA revelations had been published.

The NSA's mass collection of private phone data was among the first revelations exposed to the public by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden.

[ChriswUfGator]

Snowden should receive the congressional Medal of Honor, at least if we weren't a society of convenient hypocrites. What he exposed is WRONG, I don't much care who exposed it.

That's extremely over reaching bordering on ridiculous.
Not to mention there is no such medal as the "congressional Medal of Honor"

http://www.cmohs.org/

[BridgeTroll]

I am quite happy he is in Russia... and apparently so is he... win/win!

[ChriswUfGator]

Snowden should receive the congressional Medal of Honor, at least if we weren't a society of convenient hypocrites. What he exposed is WRONG, I don't much care who exposed it.

That's extremely over reaching bordering on ridiculous.
Not to mention there is no such medal as the "congressional Medal of Honor"

http://www.cmohs.org/

Sweet. There is a society. There still is no congressional Medal of Honor.

Yes, the society created to manage it doesn't know the name of their own medal. Obviously.

[ben says]

I am quite happy he is in Russia... and apparently so is he... win/win!

Why are you happy he's in Russia? How would his geographical location effect you whatsoever? Nonsensical at best

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Snowden should receive the congressional Medal of Honor, at least if we weren't a society of convenient hypocrites. What he exposed is WRONG, I don't much care who exposed it.

That's extremely over reaching bordering on ridiculous.
Not to mention there is no such medal as the "congressional Medal of Honor"

http://www.cmohs.org/

Sweet. There is a society. There still is no congressional Medal of Honor.

Yes, the society created to manage it doesn't know the name of their own medal. Obviously.

For what it's worth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor

Etymology[edit]

Although the medal is sometimes erroneously referred to as the Congressional Medal of Honor, the original and official name is simply the "Medal of Honor".[1][9][10][11]