$400,000.00 for a Downtown park the size of a basketball court

[tufsu1]

Woo, another so-called "park" to add to our enormous list of tiny mediocre city parks that no one uses. Yee haw!

pocket parks can be a great thing in downtown environments

So can streetlights, and mowed medians.

sure, but the state isn't paying for those

[Cheshire Cat]

Just checked the City GIS website, and it says the building, and the land it is on, and the parking lot on the east side of the block, are owned by the Jacksonville Chamber of Commerce.  Don't know where the idea came from that the City owns the Chamber building.  Or is the Property Appraiser wrong?
http://apps.coj.net/PAO_PropertySearch/Basic/Detail.aspx?RE=0744550000

WHOA!   Hold up now, the building and land is owned by the Chamber?  Media sources have all been reporting that the structure and park area is City owned, but the Property Appraisers say otherwise?  I am stunned that media did not fact check before disseminating incorrect information.  Wow!  This info does put some new questions before the community with regard to this funding.  First, is the expenditure of this money being promoted on the basis of a false fact, i.e. both the building and park are city owned.  It appears only the park area is owned by the city.  This revelation along with the sell that this building and park are the new "Entrance to Downtown" is quickly becoming a pretty packaging deal.  If the Chamber wants the park improvements then ask for the funding on the merits of what the Chamber does for Jacksonville.  Lord have mercy.  These spin jobs get so tiresome.  Charles I know you and if you say the building and parking lot is Chamber owned I believe it.

Taschachle, I am not opposed to improvements in front of the Chamber because the Chamber is there to promote Jacksonville.  However I recognize the concerns of others with regards to how $480,000.00 in tax money may best be spent, like finishing off outside areas of the Courthouse (and that damn Courthouse is another issue).  If private funds of  3 million were spent in the Chamber to improve it, I do think the outside should be finished off, leaving the mess out front is not the image we want in front of a building promoting Jacksonville.  The rub and it is becoming a bigger one right now is the idea that some are going out of their way to secure these tax dollars in some ways based upon a spin job.  I really don't like the fact that our City Council often believes this spin and makes decisions based upon it or based upon relationships with the entities applying for tax funds.  That is a problem and one could also ask if the Chamber could raise the 3 million for the building why didn't they also raise the money for the park?

The thing is this.  Our city leadership has been telling us we are broke.  The blame has been placed upon JSO and JFRD pensions in a huge way.  The city fired people saying we were broke and closed libraries.  We have streetlights turned off and medians ordered to be mowed less.  Then magically, the city has funds to give to downtown, and turn back on streetlights and mow.  The public manipulations over our budget and available tax dollars is wearing real thin about now.  The reality is that the people are being lied to and when falsities are exposed leadership want's to explain them away.  This is not acceptable and it is also why the taxpayers are up in arms about all expenditures.  The problem falls largely upon our city leadership and the office of the mayor and apparently, they can often not be believed or counted upon to make the right decisions.  We can't tolerate that.

[Tacachale]

^Again, this isn't city money we're talking about in the case of the chamber. It doesn't seem likely that if we deny the Chamber park funding that we could just use it for the Courthouse space or any of that other stuff. It's state money; it seems more likely it would go toward floor buffing the capital building or a road widening in suburban Orlando than something useful to Downtown Jacksonville.

[Cheshire Cat]

State dollars are still tax dollars Tacachale, and we all pay them.  I don't think anyone is arguing to not use the state money but there is valid discussion going on as to how best to use that state money.    Remember as well we are also being told by politician's that we are broke at the state level too. 

[Kiva]

Goat trails?  I haven't walked it in a few months.  I'm sure there has to be a trail forming between the front door and the food trucks at Jefferson and Adams, along with the stretches of Broad and Pearl that don't have sidewalks.

What a perfect idea! We could have an official herd of downtown goats, to distinguish our city from the others. Nice out-of-the-box thinking! Remember the flock of chickens around that restaurant on the South bank?

[Noone]

I respect that Ennis, I just don't agree.  We need more than the greening of an asphalt parking lot as an introduction to downtown. 

I guess my stance is from this type of viewpoint. Out of all the things currently needed to create a vibrant downtown, this ranks pretty low on the priority list, given the location. There's virtually no foot traffic here and the bridge ramps pretty much kill off connectivity to adjacent properties. You could literally put Disney inside this space and the economic spinoff would be limited due to the immediate context.  I'd probably argue that anything someone can suggest to improve this space, other than laying sod and a few trees, their suggestion would be better off in other spaces throughout downtown.

If there is a movement to stir up various groups to put time and energy into improving a space, let's address real public spaces that people actually use downtown and that have the ability to stimulate private sector economic development on properties surrounding them. Off the top of my head, Hemming, the new Courthouse Plaza, the  riverwalks, the Shipyards, Metro Park,  the parks along Hogans Creek, etc. all should be a higher priority. 

Shipyards III
Hey Bike guys. Right now there is an RFI! RFP! for 30 days on the entire SHIPYARDS property.  What about a bike rack next to the floating dock that nobody can use. I'm serious. How about a bike rack next to the Mayor Brown kayak logo at Metropolitan Park Marina? I'm serious.

These two little tactical positive benefits will immediately create an organic mini cluster of infill entrepreneurial energy That will spark explosive connectivity in an active recreational activity that will add to a 24/7 Downtown Experience.

The RAM dock is only open when RAM is open. Not Good.

VISIT DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River A FEDERAL Initiative in our newly created DIA zone.

[RiversideLoki]

These two little tactical positive benefits will immediately create an organic mini cluster of infill entrepreneurial energy That will spark explosive connectivity in an active recreational activity that will add to a 24/7 Downtown Experience.

Damnit, Noone! You were one "synergize" away from me winning this round of Local Government Buzzword Bingo!

[Noone]

I respect that Ennis, I just don't agree.  We need more than the greening of an asphalt parking lot as an introduction to downtown. 

I guess my stance is from this type of viewpoint. Out of all the things currently needed to create a vibrant downtown, this ranks pretty low on the priority list, given the location. There's virtually no foot traffic here and the bridge ramps pretty much kill off connectivity to adjacent properties. You could literally put Disney inside this space and the economic spinoff would be limited due to the immediate context.  I'd probably argue that anything someone can suggest to improve this space, other than laying sod and a few trees, their suggestion would be better off in other spaces throughout downtown.

If there is a movement to stir up various groups to put time and energy into improving a space, let's address real public spaces that people actually use downtown and that have the ability to stimulate private sector economic development on properties surrounding them. Off the top of my head, Hemming, the new Courthouse Plaza, the  riverwalks, the Shipyards, Metro Park,  the parks along Hogans Creek, etc. all should be a higher priority. 

Shipyards III
Hey Bike guys. Right now there is an RFI! RFP! for 30 days on the entire SHIPYARDS property.  What about a bike rack next to the floating dock that nobody can use. I'm serious. How about a bike rack next to the Mayor Brown kayak logo at Metropolitan Park Marina? I'm serious.

These two little tactical positive benefits will immediately create an organic mini cluster of infill entrepreneurial energy That will spark explosive connectivity in an active recreational activity that will add to a 24/7 Downtown Experience.

The RAM dock is only open when RAM is open. Not Good.

VISIT DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River A FEDERAL Initiative in our newly created DIA zone.

JWC meeting 4 hours out. Anyone want to write a check for a buck to 2009-442? Public, Private, Partnership

[Noone]

I respect that Ennis, I just don't agree.  We need more than the greening of an asphalt parking lot as an introduction to downtown. 

I guess my stance is from this type of viewpoint. Out of all the things currently needed to create a vibrant downtown, this ranks pretty low on the priority list, given the location. There's virtually no foot traffic here and the bridge ramps pretty much kill off connectivity to adjacent properties. You could literally put Disney inside this space and the economic spinoff would be limited due to the immediate context.  I'd probably argue that anything someone can suggest to improve this space, other than laying sod and a few trees, their suggestion would be better off in other spaces throughout downtown.

If there is a movement to stir up various groups to put time and energy into improving a space, let's address real public spaces that people actually use downtown and that have the ability to stimulate private sector economic development on properties surrounding them. Off the top of my head, Hemming, the new Courthouse Plaza, the  riverwalks, the Shipyards, Metro Park,  the parks along Hogans Creek, etc. all should be a higher priority. 

Shipyards III
Hey Bike guys. Right now there is an RFI! RFP! for 30 days on the entire SHIPYARDS property.  What about a bike rack next to the floating dock that nobody can use. I'm serious. How about a bike rack next to the Mayor Brown kayak logo at Metropolitan Park Marina? I'm serious.

These two little tactical positive benefits will immediately create an organic mini cluster of infill entrepreneurial energy That will spark explosive connectivity in an active recreational activity that will add to a 24/7 Downtown Experience.

The RAM dock is only open when RAM is open. Not Good.

VISIT DOWNTOWN JACKSONVILLE on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River A FEDERAL Initiative in our newly created DIA zone.

SHIPYARDS III
Downtown Experience Committee meeting of the DIA just 3 hours out. Starts at 4pm 1st floor city hall open to the Public. Will there be any media there?
New signage on our Waterways!!!!
Has it been reported anywhere?
I know it hasn"t been in Waterways. Pre Aundra Wallace.

[Noone]

Haven"t seen an agenda. I"m having some issues with my computer and I"m at the library. Has one been sent out? Anyone. This is the type of stuff that the entire city of Jacksonville and especially our Regional partners should be concerned about. The crushing of the Public Trust.

Dozens and dozens of examples.

Will there be any coverage at all. Even if its no comment. Complete and total backroom deals. Visit Jacksonville!

Anybody, Just ask Scott Wilson about the floating dock at Shipyards. He was sitting next to me at one of these meetings.

New Waterways signage. Pre Aundra Wallace (I feel so sorry for the man)

[Cheshire Cat]

Let us know if the shipyards property is discussed if you will.  Thanks for attending the meetings.

[Noone]

Another thread worthy of a bump. Public, Private, Partnership?