Live Blog: Riverside/Avondale Parking Committee 9/16

[tufsu1]

^ well said....an appropriate balance for this mixed-use neighborhood should be maintained

[L.P. Hovercraft]

Ok, so to make an analogy, an industrial factory spewing out toxic pollution into the air is A-OK, and nearby citizens should simply bow down and accept it, take "personal responsibility" and plan on wearing gas masks, radiation suits, and/or ear plugs at all times henceforth and be sure to staple plastic tarps onto all their windows to avoid having to breathe in said toxic spewage at home?  No need to mention corporate responsibility, right?  Maybe I'm just an unreformed tree hugging liberal hippie, but shouldn't the onus be on the business owner to do everything in their power to NOT emit toxic chemicals, nuclear waste, noise, music, etc. into the public sphere in the first place?

I admit my wife and I perhaps didn't handle the whole noise situation in the most friendly-neighbor kind of way, but like I said, lack of sleep and/or loud music can make one a bit crazy--hell, this very same technique is used at Guantanamo Bay to torture and then interrogate prisoners of war:

http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2008/12/15/a-history-of-music-torture-in-the-war-on-terror/

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this issue but "live and let live" is a two way street my friend.

[Slackiinoff]

Jennifer Maydachek the serial complainer for King Street who is sitting on the Commission has just arrived.

Ok, I gotta jump in here Stephen--not that this has anything to do with the parking issue, but I don't think "the serial complainer" is a fair label for this committee member unless you are also ok describing the particular nightclub in question that had the noise complaints called in as "the serial offender". 

Full disclosure, Jennifer happens to be my wife.  She's a hard working, dedicated middle school math teacher and also teaches a GED night course after school and needs to actually, you know, sleep at night and get up early in the morning, which is not easily achievable when several nights of the week extremely loud music and window rattling bass had started to emanate from one particular newly opened nightclub next door and was audible INSIDE our home.  That said, I don't think any noise complaints have been called in for at least a year or so since the club owner, being a good neighbor (and probably being sick of the complaints) installed sound proofing inside the club so that now, although it's not 100% inaudible, it has greatly decreased the volume spilling outside (and into our own home) thus solving the problem.

We don't hold a personal grudge against this particular club or it's owner, or bars or nightclubs in general--there were several others already around when we purchased our home in 2008 and we understand living in an urban area you're going to get some street noise, but come on, people gotta sleep--lack of sleep will literally make you crazy.  Or do you really think this is some kind of arrogant anti-business assumption of working class privilege that one shouldn't have to listen to bass heavy dance music when one is not actually dancing at the club next door but trying to get some sleep in one's own home at 2 in the morning?!?

So your responsible for killing the back patio between rogue and loft huh? Thanks for that, I HATED having a neat place to drink outside. The part im confused about is that I dont remember there being any music on the outside area ... I could be wrong about that, it's been closed for so long now but seems like even if there were speakers out there, the far better solution would have been to just take those down and allow the use of the patio.

You chose to live behind a business ... probably should have thought through what that would have entailed.

[Kay]

What everyone needs to understand is that The Loft needed a City exception to have a bar serving full alcohol.  So the City, including the Planning Dept. and approved by the Planning Commission, set conditions for the exception.  One of those conditions is that the bar owner is not allowed to have any activity of any kind behind the building.  He only is allowed to use that space for employee parking.  This condition was imposed before the place even opened. 

So the patio, if there was one, was illegal, according to the City.  Let's at least discuss this with the facts.  Blaming the resident is way off the mark.

[Kay]

Stephen:  Seriously, it helps everyone when you can be factual.  We've had this discussion previously and you refuse to accept the facts.  The planners within the Planning Dept. recommended the no activity in the rear because of how close businesses are to residents.  PD denied Kickbacks a patio in the rear of their building when they made an earlier request.  PD has never approved outside patios in the rear of buildings in our neighborhood.  If everyone respected the rules and the law, we'd all be better off.

[MEGATRON]

What everyone needs to understand is that The Loft needed a City exception to have a bar serving full alcohol.  So the City, including the Planning Dept. and approved by the Planning Commission, set conditions for the exception.  One of those conditions is that the bar owner is not allowed to have any activity of any kind behind the building.  He only is allowed to use that space for employee parking.  This condition was imposed before the place even opened. 

So the patio, if there was one, was illegal, according to the City.  Let's at least discuss this with the facts.  Blaming the resident is way off the mark.

Did RAP have any role in recommending the conditions of the exception to the Planning Department?

[Kay]

The planning dept. made their recommendation and RAP then found out about the application and the recommendation.  Did RAP support PD's recommendation?  Yes.  When residences exist across a small alley from bars (where the sides of houses, not the backs of properties face the alley), it is an incompatible use to have an outside patio.

[MEGATRON]

The planning dept. made their recommendation and RAP then found out about the application and the recommendation.  Did RAP support PD's recommendation?  Yes.  When residences exist across a small alley from bars (where the sides of houses, not the backs of properties face the alley), it is an incompatible use to have an outside patio.

I remember the good ole days when RAP was concerned with architectural preservation.  I miss those days.  RAP has no business chiming in on planning matters.

[Stephen]

I have not lived here that long so I might be talking out of my a-- but I am getting the impression that RAP is very full of itself and is starting to think it runs things with little if any accountability to the residents. Are the member sof RAP elected, appointed or just the people who are willing to serve? I'd certainly like to see some of the things which Stephen Dare has mentioned put into motion or at least discussed. A lot of my neighbors just roll their eyes when I mention RAP and mumble "it used to be a good organization but now etc etc etc."

[L.P. Hovercraft]

You chose to live behind a business ... probably should have thought through what that would have entailed.

Slackiinoff, sorry that you were so inconvenienced in your choice of outside drinking options, but Riverside and Avondale are actual, you know, neighborhoods, not merely the "entertainment district" for you and the rest of Jacksonville.  There's a flipside to every opinion--your last comment could always be rewritten as:
You chose to live open a night club behind a business residential homes... probably should have thought through what that would have entailed.

Personally, the back patio was never the main issue for me--we've never had any problems with the patio next door at Park Place, which actually WAS in business when we bought our home; the wall shaking bass coming from the INSIDE of the new club was, and a continually opening back door simply exacerbated the noise issue.  If the original business permit didn't allow the patio in the first place since it's located next to private residences, take it up with the business owner or the COJ.

And no, I'm not some anti-business crusader, though unlike former male human presidential unit Mitt Romney, I do not believe that "corporations are people, my friend".  I've got a pretty laissez-faire attitude about things, so as long as I don't have to hear noise coming from you, your Aunt Grizelda, or my next door neighbor at 2 am, I'm not gonna call and complain just to complain. 

As far as RAP, I see them as simply giving regular Joe "non-corporations" like my wife and I a voice in neighborhood issues such as this, which is a positive thing in my opinion.

[simonsays]

As far as RAP, I see them as simply giving regular Joe "non-corporations" like my wife and I a voice in neighborhood issues such as this, which is a positive thing in my opinion.

Yep. Someone needs  to balance the extraordinary economic power and political might of "corporations" like Alpha Dog.

[fieldafm]

I sleep better at night knowing Dahlia's Pour House won't steal my first born child.

[Kay]

The planning dept. made their recommendation and RAP then found out about the application and the recommendation.  Did RAP support PD's recommendation?  Yes.  When residences exist across a small alley from bars (where the sides of houses, not the backs of properties face the alley), it is an incompatible use to have an outside patio.

I remember the good ole days when RAP was concerned with architectural preservation.  I miss those days.  RAP has no business chiming in on planning matters.

Perhaps you don't go far enough back.  The neighborhood originally galvanized over the City's idea to put a highway through the neighborhood.  Check out the RAP's history video on the web site.  RAP has always been involved in zoning and planning issues.

[Kay]

I sleep better at night knowing Dahlia's Pour House won't steal my first born child.

Hey tough guy:  Maybe you could trade houses with some of these folks who live right next to the bars and they could enjoy your bar-free abode in Fairfax.

[Stephen]

I think there needs to be some way of having accounability for RAP. If we get a jerk or an incompetent on the City Council we can always vote them out. Is RAP really that influential? This was always happening in Chicago with neighborhoods changing and then neighbors fighting about patios , courtyards ...parking etc etc..It would be nice if there could be some sort of impartial mediation board..RAP certainly doesn't sound impartial. Who gave them this power..? Its kind of nice to have places like Dahlias's Pour House and the Loft .Park Place and the bar across the place open...Its what makes a city a city.