Councilman wants to give Shipyards, old Courthouse land away! What do you think?

[icarus]

On the flipside, Lakelander is correct about the Convention Center issue but I doubt we are going to see any real leadership on this unless we can arrange a photo-op for the Mayor.

[CityLife]

I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate here.

1. We are talking about the COJ. The same city that if I believe doesn't even know what real estate assets it owns, i.e. RFP hiring a consulting firm to inventory and value.

2. What makes you believe that the Fund is going to be less likely to develop the properties than COJ? If anything, the Fund will sell versus donating to another failed development scheme.

4. The City, as reflected in this Forum, has a number of competing wishes, i.e. dredging port, New Convention Center, Mass Transit/RTC.  We can not fund them all and can't even keep all of our libraries open let alone all our grass mowed.

5. A transfer to the Fund puts the responsibility in a single board versus the siloed departments/politics of the City.  As a businessman, I would rather negotiate with a single entity versus a plethora of departments and special interests.

These are all assumptions based on past experience with the city prior to the DIA. If Mr. Wallace and the DIA can't rectify the above and redevelop these properties better than the Police and Fire Pension Fund, then the entire organization would be a massive failure. Like Lakelander said, the DIA should be given time to finalize the CRA Plan and Mr. Wallace time to get his feet wet before making a huge decision like this with long term implications.

Also tell me, who in these bio's is some type of wizard developer or real estate guru? This is the staff of the Pension Fund. Half the posters on MJ can put together a better team in 14 minutes.

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/john-keane.aspx

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/stephen-lundy.aspx

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/deborah-manning.aspx

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/troy-scherbinski.aspx

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/kevin-stork.aspx

http://www.coj.net/departments/police---fire-pension-fund/administration/lynn-west.aspx

[CityLife]

Guillford and Boyer are crushing it these days:

But, as Boyer and City Council President Bill Gulliford said, taking away the Downtown land also hinders the work of the Downtown Investment Authority.

"Some of these parcels are some of the most significant that the city owns," said Boyer, who serves as the council liaison to the authority. "By doing this, you take all the decision-making away from the DIA ... not just proceeds, but how it becomes implemented in the bigger Downtown plan."

Gulliford agreed.

"To surrender control could have a heck of an impact on future development," he said. "That's a huge consideration. If you ceded ownership to them with certain controls, that would be one thing. But to just give the property, you'd have no control over how it would be developed or if it would be developed at all."

Authority CEO Aundra Wallace did not return a call Thursday afternoon or Friday morning.

Gulliford and council member John Crescimbeni also questioned whether it was wise to give such a hefty chunk of real estate to the fund, when past results have been spotty.

"The Police and Fire Pension Fund historically has done a miserable job on return on investment," Gulliford said. "Why would I want to see them take on something this significant when they have not yet distinguished themselves as great custodians?"

[icarus]

Again, playing devil's advocate ...

These are not assumptions but practical reality.  Case in point, where is the City in evaluating whether to sell an unused ash contaminated park in the general Brooklyn Area to an existing Jacksonville Brewery for expansion and development?  I'm assuming COJ is still trying to decide what Department has jurisdiction to even consider the idea let alone which Department owns the property ... then again maybe they are going to issue an RFP to determine if they do indeed own it.

The Fund board is not compromised of developers and I can think of several fiduciary reasons I wouldn't want someone like that charged with managing pension fund assets.  What the Fund board is comprised of is individuals charged with effectively managing assets which is far more than can be said of anything COJ has shown so far. No, I am not convinced they are effective stewards but judging by the dust on the deeds ... neither is COJ.

Lastly, you ask a lot to put faith in new agency which to date has only managed to lose most its capital to other competing interests, had an influential member resign, and abdicated its responsibilities to another agency, i.e. OED for negotiations.

.......

Now personally, this is an accounting gimmick that transfers under or un utilized assets in an attempt to plug a hole that requires at least a $1b more in assets to do.

I have no real expectation of leadership from the Mayor's office on any of these issues. I do hope that by proposing something like this perhaps it engages people to get off their proverbial asses and get engaged and involved. If anything, maybe this does give Wallace and DIA an opportunity to step forward and do something ... anything.

I suggest Gulliford and Boyer seize the momentum and actually lead.  The whole City might just collectively breathe easier.

[thelakelander]

This is probably the second time. Gulliford is also a fan of not getting rid of the gas tax because it's one of the only taxes that's partially generated by non-Duval County residents.

[CityLife]

Again, playing devil's advocate ...

These are not assumptions but practical reality.  Case in point, where is the City in evaluating whether to sell an unused ash contaminated park in the general Brooklyn Area to an existing Jacksonville Brewery for expansion and development?  I'm assuming COJ is still trying to decide what Department has jurisdiction to even consider the idea let alone which Department owns the property ... then again maybe they are going to issue an RFP to determine if they do indeed own it.

The Fund board is not compromised of developers and I can think of several fiduciary reasons I wouldn't want someone like that charged with managing pension fund assets.  What the Fund board is comprised of is individuals charged with effectively managing assets which is far more than can be said of anything COJ has shown so far. No, I am not convinced they are effective stewards but judging by the dust on the deeds ... neither is COJ.

Lastly, you ask a lot to put faith in new agency which to date has only managed to lose most its capital to other competing interests, had an influential member resign, and abdicated its responsibilities to another agency, i.e. OED for negotiations.

You aren't going to get any arguements from me regarding the city's mishandling of assets. If you look back at the thread from when Intution wanted the Shipyards site, I blasted the city for not properly handling the situation or having any unified plan for disposition of assets. That is precisely one of the charges that the new DIA has. Despite the fact that I'm not all that impressed with their hire, I still would much rather give him and the DIA the opportunity to put together a disposition plan for city assets, than simply give it to the Pension Fund. As Guilliford pointed out and my previously linked bios show, that organization has ZERO capacity to redevelop the properties.

You think there is a conflict of interest between a real estate person disposing of real estate assets, but not of a former Fire employee managing a fund of retirement accounts to former police and fire employees...hmmm. I don't like airing dirty laundry in public forums like this, but like I said earlier, I was told of some pension fund management issues that the public would apparently be pretty mad about.

As for faith in the DIA...the money was gone prior to Wallace coming on board...you want to further handcuff him and the DIA? Take away all city owned land for potential redevelopment deals downtown.

Really, we're just spinning our wheels for nothing. I don't have a ton of faith in council in general, but there is no way they would be dumb enough to vote for this.

[CityLife]

This is probably the second time. Gulliford is also a fan of not getting rid of the gas tax because it's one of the only taxes that's partially generated by non-Duval County residents.

Don't forget that he is the one that called out the city for mishandling of the Hemming RFP and is working to correct it.

[urbanlibertarian]

The COJ surrendering control of downtown properties to those who will invest their own money in them is far more likely to put them to prosperous use than whatever plans the COJ or DIA could come up with.  What we need downtown is more prosperity, not more vision and planning.  All of those properties should go back on the tax rolls.

[thelakelander]

^Well we do need a CRA plan for DT. It's actually legally required. You also don't get more prosperity if you have no coordinated vision.  Instead, you only end up with a clusterfuck of parts that don't work well together.  Sort of what downtown has become today.

While I agree that as much land as possible should be returned back to the tax rolls, giving all property to the Fund may not be the best solution here.  The better solution would be to issue an RFP for properties deemed disposable.

[urbanlibertarian]

Parts that don't work well together would be a huge improvement over vacant buildings and surface parking.  Compatible uses will tend to pop up near each other like the bars in the Elbow.

[thelakelander]

Parts that don't work well together would be a huge improvement over vacant buildings and surface parking.

But you still miss the goal of having a vibrant downtown. You'd have less vacant buildings because they'd be torn down for more surface parking. Instead of an F, you end up with a D+, depending on how one views a Southside looking DT.  Either way, you're still failing.

[Bill Hoff]

This idea is ridiculous at this time. I can't imagine it would come close to passing.

[Noone]

Voting ends Oct. 4, 2013 the day of the next Downtown Experience Committee meeting of the DIA. We need another round over here!

DIA Board meeting today 5pm. City hall. Anyone going? Will there even be one news crew to ask the new CEO of our DIA Aundra Wallace about this real estate take away from the DIA? I feel sorry for the man already. You have to hope that it will be discussed at the meeting.

Ron Barton
Don Shea
John Culbreath
Vince Seibold

But HEY, OED had the DIA Board Board vote away there  rights before Wallace took charge Aug. 19 to negotiate on a super list of projects that after the city council vote will be millions of dollars to the stick your hand out recipients that should have this entire city just shaking their heads. Just pull the tape and listen for yourselves. Lake, It should be interesting to see what's on the agenda. By the way has anyone received today's agenda for the DIA Board meeting that is just 14 hours out?

Thank God for the new guy Paul Astleford CEO of Visit Jacksonville and just on the job 9mos identified 32 organizations hindering tourism. Can we all say RICO.

Our city doesn't know what land they have. (Mr. Overton, I know that you know what we have.)
What are the current land holdings of the PFPF?
When I drive around Downtown I notice a number of properties. Some are FOP I believe. So what does that count for? Are they all income producing for PFPF?
Maybe there should be a list of these properties before we just give away the store?

If we are going to give away land. Why not give the land outside of the DIA zone and the land and it's use be tied in to the Jacksonville Journey?

A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us

[Overstreet]

Didn't they tell us they would sell the old court house site to off set some of the cost of the new courthouse and get a new tax revenue from it?

I don't think they do what they say.

[Lunican]

Is the Shipyards really worth $69 million? If this property were sold at auction, how much could it really get?