Nathan Beford Forrest High: Time For a Name Change

[Cheshire Cat]

But let's just focus on the Klan... POLITICALLY CORRECT BULL SHIT!

Are you calling BS because the Klan was only part of the problem and not the issue in it's entirety?

The man actually had a pretty incredible life and went from ignorant poverty to slave trader and Confederate General. He wrote the book on MODERN calvary tactics. Became a early Civil Rights leader, asked forgiveness and went against the grain of Memphis to assist Black families lift themselves from oblivion.

The BS is the singular focus on his brief time with the Klan, which by the way has never been proved to any satisfaction.

Can you expound upon the statement of him becoming an early civil rights leader?  I didn't know about the Memphis history which is interesting but was he ever connected in any real way to Jacksonville's history that you know of?  Just inquiring, I really don't know the answer and you appear to have done some research.

[thelakelander]

^LOL, Ock would make it his personal quest to rip down every one of Grant's statues.

[Cheshire Cat]

I  think it is just fine to honor our fathers who fought for their homes and their lives.  No problem. 

Naming a school after the founder of KKK is a different matter altogether.  IMHO.  Especially surrounding the circumstances.  Especially involving the children, those whose self-esteem needs a boost the most. 

It's a humiliation to put it mildly.

(Which I suspect was the intention when it was named).

Exactly.  It would be like erecting a statue to Grant in every Confederate Graveyard in the South.

Truth be known I kind of feel the same way about the Andrew Jackson statue downtown and he was a southern hero to many.  These men and their attitudes do reflect a part of our history that was actually pretty ugly, that much is true.  I just think it is up to us as a society to decide who in history we should honor and celebrate.  I have a hard time honoring a guy who lied to American Indians and walked them to their death, but maybe that is just me. (yes, I am trying snark again)  The underlying issue is who do we honor and why?

[thelakelander]

^LOL, Ock would make it his personal quest to rip down every one of Grant's statues.

Well just replace them with a Statue of Sherman, torch in hand.

the eternal flame of freedom.  You know.  Sherman was a liberator.  I can't imagine what kind of problem confederate heritage aficionados would have with a natural leader who believed in freedom.

Like Forrest, he did have a change of heart in deciding not to torch Savannah.

[Cheshire Cat]

Is there a reason that the issue of a name change for the Nathan Forrest school could not be included on the 2015 election ballot?  That may be the most fair way to deal with the issue.  Let the voters decide. 

[theduvalprogressive]

I agree Cheshire Cat. I don't see why this couldn't be resolved via referendum either. In terms of defending one's heritage I still have to mention that Nathan Bedford Forrest, and I mean no respect to lifetime southerners, was not a part of any of your heritage. He was a member of the elite class who largely left the south after the Civil War(read 'The Saharra of the Bozart - H.L. Mencken). In fact the majority of white southerners were defending their "homeland" within their "homeland" but that was not the reason for the Civil War in reality.

The war was over the elite's right to own other people as property - the common southerner was only a bit player in that game. Really in all truth the common southerner had no more interest fighting for the elite's right to keep slaves than they have now fighting wars to keep the dollars flowing into the pockets of the Military Industrial Complex.

The upper-class southerner in antibellum society rarely gave poor southerners a second thought unless, of course, it came to the idea that their free labor would be taken away. Then the idea of "state's rights" had to be sold to the poor southern whites in order to give them a reason to suspect they had an interest in fighting for individuals who had very little to do with them. Forrest was one of these people.

[sheclown]

This is a children's school we are talking about.

Name a park after him, put up a brown road sign, who cares?

But not a school where children are mandated to attend -- those same children whose "heritage" includes being victimized by the KKK.

[Egodriver71]

NO!!!!


Stop trying to do this and just accept it for what it has been since 1963

[thelakelander]

Considering the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I'm sure people thought the same about their Civil Rights fight in 1963.  Speaking of 1963, did this school really open the same year as the March on Washington and the best name we could come up with was the founder of the KKK?  Wow, no wonder those coming here from other areas consider this situation so backward.

[Ajax]

Robert (or anyone at MJ), is there any chance that Professor Stoll might be willing to write an article presenting his research to the MJ readers?  I can't recall whether or not they had any town hall meetings or community workshops when they tried to change the name a few years ago.  They might have, but I just don't remember it. 

[Ajax]

Back to the Forrest issue. How come there's not more students involved? The article states that Stoll once used it as an assignment to a group of students, but why just a small group? Why aren't all of the students rallying to get the name changed as it represents them? Do they simply not know the history of Nathan Bedford Forrest? Do they just not care?

It just seems to me that if the students got more involved maybe more people would take note and the name might actually get changed.

I can only speak for myself, and I haven't set foot in that place since about 1986 or 87.  I don't remember any of my history classes covering N.B. Forrest, and as kids at the school we really didn't pay any attention to the name.  Typical teenagers, I guess.  By the time we grew up and started reflecting on things, maybe we were desensitized to the name.  As someone who went to school there and grew up with the name, it just seemed normal. 

[Garden guy]

Shouldnt we call the local chapters of the KKK and tell them?

[JayBird]

Shouldnt we call the local chapters of the KKK and tell them?

Actually, being a naive Yankee (we do have a "Klan Tree" in my hometown, but think it was actually used once and most of its history is urban myth) does the KKK still operate? Is there still such an organization or some form of what it was? If so, that would certainly be a factor in changing the name.

[Tacachale]

Considering the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I'm sure people thought the same about their Civil Rights fight in 1963.  Speaking of 1963, did this school really open the same year as the March on Washington and the best name we could come up with was the founder of the KKK?  Wow, no wonder those coming here from other areas consider this situation so backward.

No, the school opened in 1959. However, it's even worse than what you're saying. The name of this school, and those of several others that opened around that same time, were deliberately chosen as a swipe at the civil rights movement, as they were all-white schools established in defiance of the Brown vs. the Board of Education ruling.

[Tacachale]

^Not to mention the many of us who do share that heritage but who don't base their Southernness on venerating the Confederacy.

Keep in mind that many who are seen to be venerating the Confederacy are actually honoring the people in their lives/families who fought a battle the felt strongly enough to lose their lives over.  I am speaking in the sense of just honoring the people as opposed to the Confederate manifesto of the time.  Having had several family members who fought in the Civil War and died doing so, the fact that they fought for something that I will never be able to embrace does not lessen the valor of their convictions in their own eyes.  I also had some who fought on the side of the North and feel no differently toward them or their personal sacrifice. 

I think it is always important at times like this to realize that there were attitudes throughout the nation and even on the part of Lincoln himself that Blacks would never be equal to Whites.  The same was even true in the original constitution in which some wanted to include words protecting the right to keep slaves.

Sure, but that's not what's happening here. There's no local history tied to Forrest and that's not why the name was chosen.