Nathan Beford Forrest High: Time For a Name Change

[Ajax]

And another thing... 

I think a name that really brings shame on us all is the person that our city is named after.  Andrew Jackson is another guy who, as far as I know never set foot here and really didn't have much to do with this area.  Yes, he was a President, but should the person behind the Trail of Tears be honored by having our city named after him? 

[HisBuffPVB]

Trying to accommodate current thought by changing names of places or things, named in a different time under different thought is difficult. Where do you begin and where do you stop? The flag  that flew over slavery the longest in this country was the current United States flag, should it be changed? The Confederate Battle flag never flew over slavery, It flew on the battlefield and in a naval configuration over CSA ships, however, in the 20th century, the Klan and skinheads were allowed to capture the flag and fly it over the worst kind of pro segregation demonstrations, so that it has become part of the negative thought toward those groups and their actions. I consider this because of the lack of action of moderate white southerners including myself who saw that flag in a different light but never stepped forward to complain, we have to shoulder some of the blame. So perhaps now, the confederate battleflag should be put away in museums until such a time as that revised meaning is just a long ago memory. NBF was not from this area, did not command troops from this area, and never visited this area, his name on a new school in the late 50's was only to make a statement that was anti integration. Ironically, the massacre of African American soldiers at Fort Pillow for which he was blamed, was determined by an investigation led by Gen. Sherman that it was not his fault.  And again, ironically, the fault for Fort Pillow was found to be the work of Gen. Kirby Smith, who was from this area!!! But alumni of the school, both races , seem to be comfortable with the name of the school. I think the name of the school should be changed.

[Ajax]

I think the connection to the KKK is the issue.

(Even if that was the nice KKK -- really?)

It isn't the fact that it is politically incorrect.  It is the fact that it is horribly offensive.

Yeah, I'm trying to find something about the KKK fraternity stuff.  If I remember correctly his defenders (apologists?) said that he left the KKK when they started terrorizing people.  I guess anyone can say anything so I probably should have put my hands on that before I said anything about it but I couldn't stop myself.  I'm not here to defend the KKK.  But I want to know more. 

A quick google search picked this up: http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/kkk-founded

Former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was the KKK's first grand wizard; in 1869, he unsuccessfully tried to disband it after he grew critical of the Klan's excessive violence.

Other sources have similar passages. 

[theduvalprogressive]

The first time I came to Jacksonville was when I was 14 years old. Growing up mostly in northeastern Pennsylvania, I am very familiar with "northern racism" but the one thing that really stunned me was the outright hateful sentiment in those days among whites from the lower classes and really with no true logical base. I remember meeting a girl at the Robert E Lee swimming pool and asking her why they would name the school after a man who rebelled against his own country to defend slavery and what she called me was a bit too insulting to mention here. But it stayed with me.

When I moved here to stay after college I remember always wondering why they would allow Forrest to be commemorated in such a way and why they wold allow a public park to be named "Confederate Park". It wasn't until Stephen gave me a crash course on how the park got its name before I really got interested in reading up on how the school came to be named Forrest High School.

My initial intention was to include an interview with some of the people responsible for lobbying for the name. Many have since passed on and their relatives, after seeing some of my articles online, wouldn't discuss it with me. Originally the name of the high school was going to be called Valhalla High School - why I'm not sure. After the Brown vs. Board of Education decision came about, the Daughters of the Confederacy lobbied for its current name which to me seems defiantly petty.

My other concern has always been the Daughters of the Confederacy's arrogance in lobbying for this name knowing that African-American taxpayers would be paying for the school along with everyone else. This to me is offensive on many levels.

Much of the concerns I've gotten from whites on the westside have been mainly dealing with the idea that changing the name of the school somehow "destroys their heritage". To that I would like to mention that many of them, if any, weren't even related to Forrest. Also, there are way too many positive local Jaxons one could name a school after and I'm sure Stephen can name far more than I could. Furthermore, there are many positives about the south that should live on minus the character lackings of a man like Nathan Bedford Forrest. Southerners are hard working people who will give you the shirt off of their back if they like you. They are proud and interested in fairness and honor. It is unfortunate that such propaganda is allowed to exist as it brings down what is perhaps a reasonably respectable culture.

[tayana42]

Change the name to, simply, "Forrest High School", and have a required course for every student explaining why, in the enlightened year of 2013, the name was shortened and go over the history of Nathan B. Forrest, encouraging student dialogue about Forrest and the Civil War.

[thelakelander]

Ouch--or there's always Ottis Toole Tech if we want to stay local/loco. 
Born and raised in Jacksonville, he's the prime suspect for the murder of Adam Walsh in 1981.  Has as much relevance to a quality education as Nathan Bedford Forrest does.

Why not? I came across a potential mascot drawn by Ottis himself, in a DC museum a few weeks back..

[JUUC]

One question I have is this: if we change the name of Forrest High School, what else are we going to change?  I guess we've got to get rid of J.E.B. Stuart and Stonewall Jackson.  Jeff Davis.  Can we keep Robert E. Lee?  Maybe for a while, but eventually he'll have to go too.  George Washington owned slaves.  I'm not trying to be ridiculous but where do we draw the line?

I think a name that really brings shame on us all is the person that our city is named after.  Andrew Jackson is another guy who, as far as I know never set foot here and really didn't have much to do with this area.  Yes, he was a President, but should the person behind the Trail of Tears be honored by having our city named after him? 

Good point and, in my opinion, the essence of the debate.

Take the names off the streets and leave them in the history books. Ease public agitations (on the right and left). Promote the things that unify us and not those that divide us. Naming a school that is evidently based on a premise of hate not heritage is not reasonable or logical. How has this argument been going on for so long?

While we are at it, change the name of Jacksonville too. What a lazy and apathetic name that promotes so much unoriginal blandness. Save the raciest part, one doesn't even have to look that far to realize it's a bad choice of name.

Andrew Jackson:
The 7th president of the United States who was celebrated for dismantling the 2nd National Bank and enacting a spoils system (he wasn't all bad). He was also infamous for Native American ethnic cleansing , deadly duels, and was pro slavery (but he had pretty twisted morals).

Ville:
Originally from Latin Villa Rustica (Farm), later From French Ville (town, city), and used in English as a suffix describing mostly villages, towns, and sometimes cities.

Andrew Jackson was the military governor of Florida for 10 months after an unauthorized invasion of the territory in 1821 which lead to Spain ceding the peninsula the same year. He kind of loathed the place.

There are currently 19 towns/cities named after Andrew Jackson in the U.S., 3 use the suffix -ville in combination with his last name; Jacksonville.

[theduvalprogressive]

The differences between Forrest and, say, Lee, Washington, Jefferson, and other is very marked. We can be frank in explaining that they paradoxically owned slaves but traded off that ill in contributions. Nathan Bedford Forrest over the course of a lifetime wasn't similar in any way. The man by predominant accounts was a cruel, violent, and hateful individual who's savagery in the name of profits rivals that of some of the worst individuals in history.

I believe that changing the name of Forrest doesn't mean the community has to go any further than it wants to. If that includes going after JEB Stuart or Stonewall Jackson so be it. If it doesn't that's fine as well.

[sheclown]

Don't forget that the school is predominately occupied by black children -- what the hell?

Heritage is fine.  Cruelty is not. 

[JayBird]

Don't forget that the school is predominately occupied by black children -- what the hell?

Heritage is fine.  Cruelty is not.

I think the first step we must take is to stop making decisions based on race, gender, creed, political affiliation in this city. Until we can reach that point, any changes proposed/made to school names, or any other community decision for that matter, would not solve the underlying problem. As I stated before, people who are truly upset by the name of a school (instead of looking at the student body that represents that name) will not find satisfaction with merely a name change. They need to look a little deeper and find the cause of such feelings and deal with those.

*****

As for Jacksonville, I think it is applicable. It showed that the community held Andrew Jackson in honor and were in line with his ambitions at the time.

After reading the comments here, I can see why a name change would be a positive move. However, for those that feel ashamed of attending there or those that feel it is disrespectful, stand up and be proud. After all, it took people standing up and being proud of themselves to put an end to what that man (or the organization he created) stood for.

[Jameson]

They should rename it Megatron High School and the mascot could be a kickass robot that transforms into a gun.

Man, no way this could ever happen.  The gun control activists would lose their minds.

Maybe if Megatron the robot turned into a flower, or a cute little bunny, or something else that no one finds offensive.

[Jameson]

Man, no way this could ever happen.  The gun control activists would lose their minds.

Maybe if Megatron the robot turned into a flower, or a cute little bunny, or something else that no one finds offensive.

You don't think its a problem that you can't tell the difference between cartoon violence by imaginary cartoon guns, and real violence by actual guns?

I tried to use emojis to convey that I was joking and failed. I don't want to get off on a gun control tangent as this is not the thread for that, but I'll answer your question.

I most certainly can tell the difference between a gunfight on say an episode of South Park vs. the killing of Chris Lane in Oklahoma. However, I can see where some people in today's society may get confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tr37b-FYj8g

Back to the Forrest issue. How come there's not more students involved? The article states that Stoll once used it as an assignment to a group of students, but why just a small group? Why aren't all of the students rallying to get the name changed as it represents them? Do they simply not know the history of Nathan Bedford Forrest? Do they just not care?

It just seems to me that if the students got more involved maybe more people would take note and the name might actually get changed.

[BridgeTroll]

Leave the name... just change the mascot/logo...

[Jameson]

Leave the name... just change the mascot/logo...

The Nathan Bedford Forrest Gumps. And have the mascot be a shrimp. I like it. Now we're getting somewhere.

[JayBird]

^^ Lmao, but I think then the handicapped/disabled/mentally challenged/special (what is the proper term this year??) camp would riot