Jacksonville on short list for NASL franchise

[cline]

^The construction of AT&T Park was privately financed.  The land was given away by the City (worth 10's of millions) and the property tax exemptions are worth even more 10's of millions.  Look, any way you cut it cities all across the country (big and small) are bending over for pro sports teams.  I'm not saying its right- that's just the way it is.  The notion of a completely private self sustaining pro sports franchise is pretty much a pipe dream.  The owners didn't get to be billionaires by being stupid- they're businessman.

[simms3]

SF actually still owns the land under AT&T park and collects rent on it.  The Giants received $10M tax abatements on improvements worth around $400M at cost (could be 2-2.5 years at most, which is chump change compared to the deals struck in many cities such as Jax) and the city provided infrastructure improvements that also paved the way for Mission Bay (T-line LRT), which is seeing the most investment activity in the area right now (the improvements would have been done anyway for the master plan of the area).  It's the most private sports deal in the country still.

I'll still give you a touche because nothing so large is ever 100% private - heck the private sector in general isn't even 100% private.  But taxpayers wanted it to be private and folks were willing to do so, so the city listened (which is horrifyingly rare nowadays...look at Miami for worst case scenario!).

[copperfiend]

Bay Area professional sports are all privately backed, from operations to stadiums. 

Pretty sure the City of Santa Clara is borrowing a ton of money to finance the new stadium for the 49's.  The stadium will also be like 40 miles from San Francisco.  There's only a handful of pro sports stadiums that are fully privately funded.  The taxpayers of Miami will be paying for the Marlins stadium for decades because of Loria.

Santa Clara took out an 850 million dollar loan for the stadium.

[simms3]

Again - I generalize (haven't we learned this about me yet over the past better part of a decade?  LoL)  Bay Area has 6 major league sports teams and an MLS Team.

Of these 7 teams:

1 (Giants) is already as private a professionals team/stadium as it can get
1 (Warriors) is going the route of Giants
1 (Earthquakes) plays on a college campus and requires no stadium of its own (does UNF or JU have a soccer stadium?)
1 (A's) are in talks to do a slightly less private deal than Giants where Port of Oakland will give away land and stadium will be privately funded
1 (Raiders) may end up renting out the stadium in Santa Clara much like the Jets rented out Giants Stadium, thus requiring no new stadium
1 (Sharks) play in a vintage early 90s arena that was requested specifically by an eager taxpayer base and received funding from a special tax that was voted on by the public
1 (49ers) are going to a new stadium that was a highly transparent public deal passed by 58% of Santa Clara voters.

So out of the Bay Area, SF County taxpayers want all private and are getting all private.  Alameda County taxpayers are getting a blend that leans private (or no stadium).  And Santa Clara is public, but in a large (~1.8 million people), wealthy county that has the means, and also the public will.

[cline]

Bay Area professional sports are all privately backed, from operations to stadiums. 

Pretty sure the City of Santa Clara is borrowing a ton of money to finance the new stadium for the 49's.  The stadium will also be like 40 miles from San Francisco.  There's only a handful of pro sports stadiums that are fully privately funded.  The taxpayers of Miami will be paying for the Marlins stadium for decades because of Loria.

Santa Clara took out an 850 million dollar loan for the stadium.

Yes.  And were loaned about 200MM by the NFL as well I believe.  San Fran is actually one of the better examples of public-private stadium financing.  Probably the way it should be.  Miami, on the other hand, is an example of how a billionaire owner swindled a City out of tons of cash.  Luckily, we're not looking at 1 billion dollar stadium to bring the NASL to Jax.  My opinion is that we could do something at one of the colleges here- JU probably.  City could pony up some dough, JU could as well and then get a private entity on board in addition.  Sea Best comes to mind.  I think we can make it work.

By the way I have an old Jacksonville Tea Men pennant in my garage.  Its pretty rad.  Also have a picture of the team.  Dennis Viollet was the coach at the time.  He became the coach for JU eventually.  He also used to play for Man U way back in the day.

[tufsu1]

did cline just use the word rad?

[KenFSU]

SORRY SIMS BUT... This is maybe the 2,000Th post of yours where I've seen this same line, either literal or implied: " "Jacksonville is the last city on earth that needs more___________ . (Fill in the blank).

In this specific case, I think it's an interesting point to consider. Jacksonville is a very small market, barely cracking the top 40 MSAs by population. When you look at our median income, we actually rank way down at 82nd in the country. There's not currently a whole lot of money in Jacksonville, publicly or privately, relative other areas in the country. If you take a close look at the Jaguars average annual attendance relative factors such as local unemployment rate, it's clear that an NFL market this size is super fragile/sensitive and faces a real struggle to support an NFL team in anything short of a reasonably good economy.

Thus, when we hear the mayor talk about things like bringing the NBA to Jacksonville or (eventually) working our way toward an MLS team, we kind of need to consider whether that money, both public and private, is going to come at the expense of cannibalizing our existing NFL team. With a finite amount of local money for ticket sales, corporate money for club tickets and suites, and limited public money for stadiums and upkeep, it would be a shame for the the city "pull a Jacksonville" and chase the next big thing (such a soccer specific stadium with corresponding high ticket prices) while neglecting the extremely valuable, once-in-a-lifetime asset that we already have.

A very special set of circumstances came together to help us get an NFL team. We were in the right place at the right time with the right owner, after having slowly chipped away at NFL movers and shakers for over a decade. Our relationship with the Jaguars has had its ups and down over the last twenty years, but it's brought Jacksonville national recognition, and even a Super Bowl. People don't like to hear it, but if neglect or publicly-funded alternate sports franchises ever did lead to the Jaguars leaving, there are just too many other, stronger television markets (including both London and LA) for Jacksonville to have a realistic shot at acquiring another team.

I love the idea of the NASL coming to Jacksonville at J-U or UNF, but I kind of lean toward thinking that we should focus 110% of our energy on making sure our NFL team has a waiting list for season tickets 5-10 year straight before we even think about supporting a new stadium for a new sports team in the city.

[giorgiob8]

The only reason I mentioned Patton Park is because a big % of the infrastructure needed is already in place plus it is home of the training grounds that had been used by the USWNT and other pro soccer teams as well as several regional events. It is centrally located for the soccer community and "getting in and out" should not be a problem for 8-10 K fans at the most (you are day-dreaming if you expect more for an NASL team here) The venue improvements can also include road improvements to accommodate traffic patterns on game day.

Of course, a brand new soccer specific stadium in Downtown is anyone's wetdreams but again you are dreaming if you think it will happen. This city will never fund such project which from the ground up will cost millions and millions and you are also daydreaming if you think a private individual -even if he owns 20 fisheries- is going to put his money where his mouth is. The taxpayers will be asked to fund it and the vote will be NO.
On the other hands, improving Patton Park by phases is doable (in case you do not know it, the City of Jax just issued a 2 million dollar grant to Patton park to add two fields two years ago) and the park is privately operated and closed to the public.
If not Patton Park or a similar venue needing only improvements by phases that can house the NASL team the other viable option is UNF but if the idea is a brand new soccer specific stadium in downtown I am telling you: It will never happen and do not even bring up the "future MLS team": this is even less realistic. I am a ex-soccer player, coach, referee and I will buy season tickets regardless of where that team plays but I have my feet on the ground.

[Tacachale]

^I don't follow. No stadium (ie, the expensive part) exists at Patton Park, so a new one would have to be built even if they put it there. Plus, a lot of the infrastructure needs is people's ability to get to it, that simply doesn't exist at Patton Park. On top of that it's not any closer for people coming from, say, Mandarin, Orange Park, or St. Johns than downtown is. At any rate, I doubt anyone here thinks it would be a good idea to build a stadium just for an NASL team, even if it was built by the owner; it would have to have other uses to be worth it.

[JaxByDefault]

You can support the NASL effort by putting down a seat deposit for (fingers crossed) 2015 season tickets.

http://www.jaxnasl.com

[blizz01]

Sorry for any up front excitement - just bumping to the top in case there's some news....

[fsquid]

supposed to hear something today or tomorrow.  San Antonio just built a soccer stadium that seats 8k, is expandable to 18k and has a capacity of 14k for concerts.  It cost an estimated $30 million that was privately funded.

[copperfiend]

That is exactly what we need here.

[77danj7]

Something like that would be great for Jacksonville - especially to expand for outdoor concerts and the like!

[fsquid]

concerts, you could even hold playoff high school football games there if the demand is needed (maybe even D1-AA if JU makes it)