Demolition debate mounting in Jacksonville City Hall as old buildings go down

[Ralph W]

Has anyone dug really deep to see if there might be a hidden motive behind these "fast-tracked" or instant demolitions? Specifically when it was revealed that no bids are taken for the demolition services provided by a favored contractor. Follow the money.

[JaxUnicorn]

Has anyone dug really deep to see if there might be a hidden motive behind these "fast-tracked" or instant demolitions? Specifically when it was revealed that no bids are taken for the demolition services provided by a favored contractor. Follow the money.

There are people trying to follow the money.  And pulling their hair out by the roots in the effort.  They face one roadblock after another and no one seems to know anything.  No wonder our city is in the shape it is in...

Ralph, got any suggestions, tips or pointers on how to get the info??

[Cheshire Cat]

Has anyone dug really deep to see if there might be a hidden motive behind these "fast-tracked" or instant demolitions? Specifically when it was revealed that no bids are taken for the demolition services provided by a favored contractor. Follow the money.

There are people trying to follow the money.  And pulling their hair out by the roots in the effort.  They face one roadblock after another and no one seems to know anything.  No wonder our city is in the shape it is in...

Ralph, got any suggestions, tips or pointers on how to get the info??

I have already made the request and have the appropriate individual waiting for me to come and view the files.  I haven't been feeling well enough to get down there.  I can contact the city and tell them you are coming in my stead to view the files if you like.  That would be the best thing perhaps.  My chronic pain has me immobile at the moment.  Do you want to do that?  If so I will send you the contact name, phone number and email them letting them know you will be there to view the purchase orders. You can see them next week for sure.

[sheclown]

That would be great Diane   We will talk off line

[Cheshire Cat]

That would be great Diane   We will talk off line

Okay Gloria, give me a call tomorrow or Sunday afternoon if you like. 

[hooplady]

To answer the questions for the hundredth time, yes, many of us live IN or NEAR a "POS" like the ones being demolished.  Every morning I look at one from my kitchen window, praying every day that it just gets to hang on a bit longer.  I did not move to a historic district to see empty lots.  While I appreciate thoughtful infill, we have plenty of places for that to happen right now.

I spent far more restoring my house than a sane person should have, because that's what it needed.  Isn't that my right?  There are more people like me out there - not many, but enough, a few at a time.  It won't matter if the houses aren't there when the people are ready.

And yes, other areas should be concerned too...Springfield just happens to be on the bleeding edge of the trend.

[suburbanite]

Who is "Big Nugget" LOL! I'm a genuine newbie to this site. My writing style is tongue-in-cheek, if that's offensive, stop taking yourself so seriously. I am a long time resident (since 1974, age 12), who knows the west bank neighborhoods as good, if not better, than anyone. Please, I'm admittedly no Wayne Wood, but I am intimately acquainted with the area. I'm also very acquainted with Springfield, too.
I never doubted the existence of a pending contract on 2nd and Liberty, just the ability to successfully close. My interests are architecture, city planning, and sociology; not necessarily in that particular order. I'm not formally trained, but read as much as I can. Yes, it's sad to see these buildings go, but to patch and band-aid them at city cost is crazy talk. As if we don't have more pressing needs than those dubious wants. Historic fabric? That's not going anywhere. Unless of course the city tries to "La Villa" the neighborhood, which I would oppose. But I don't see that happening. What I do see is people blaming the city for being in a no-win situation. Leave the structures, shore 'em up, confiscate 'em, sell 'em, with only a hope and a prayer the cycle doesn't repeat itself, while endangering nearby lives and property values; or knock'em down, removing any danger, and allow for a new beginning. Springfield will never be what it was, the Acosta Bridge and Riverside-Avondale sealed that envelope. But there is plenty of hope for it, let it evolve.

The only difference between LaVilla and Springfield is the pace, the result is the same.

What is the difference between paying $2,000 to a contractor to mothball a property and $5,000 to demolish it, except that 3,000 of tax money gets wasted in the later situation?  It the city has the capability to do one, it can just as easily do the other. 

The fact is these properties are not unsafe to begin with, it is a BS excuse. 

I have to say, you totally lost me on the Acosta Bridge/R-A comment.  Care to explain?

First off, yea I know, the injury and fatality rate from unsafe buildings is appalling, but it could be worse. That's why we have codes. Gotta admit, I've seen some magnificent houses in Springfield brought back from death's door. One in particular was on a corner of 2nd and ? (couple blocks west of Main) overlooking Confederate Park. Saw it in the late 80's and thought, "Wow! What a POS, but good bones and a view. A decade later, I checked up on it to find it restored to it's former glory. Problem is, few people of those means will even consider Springfield as a home. My hat's off to those of you that have the means to restore those old houses, because I can't see the return on investment in most cases. That's why I believe restoration of Springfield, as a whole, has to be targeted to those that can afford to live there. There's no real draw to the area, other than views of Confederate Park.

As for my comment regarding "The Acosta Bridge/R-A". Springfield was developed in response to The Great Fire. People of means wanted out of town, and that was the new upper-class area. But only 20 short years later, the Acosta Bridge opened up South Jacksonville, and Riverside-Avondale was being developed. The smart money went south from Springfield to greener pastures. Springfield had 20 good years. By the 40's it already was less than desirable and was in decline. The same fate befell San Marco and Riverside-Avondale in about the same time-frame, but... those areas still had the river and hadn't devolved as far as Springfield, also R-A had the silver-lined cloud of road development threatening to destroy it, which to my understanding, is what led to the activism that birthed RAP. San Marco had... well, they have San Marco. And Springfield? It has... rotting buildings, crime, and not much more. I'm not trying to slag it, but that's what I see.

[thelakelander]

Was Springfield ever considered a redlined neighborhood?  I've seen an early 20th century map on a St. Johns Park brochure showing everything north of downtown being redlined except for Springfield and Brentwood.  It seems publicly subsidized policies to segregate races could have been a negative for Springfield that Riverside/Avondale and San Marco have never had to endure. 

On the other hand, this could have been a blessing for Springfield  during the height of the urban renewal era (same as inner city Savannah & Charleston) because the city basically ignored it during the era of urban renewal's height of popularity.  Downtown and LaVilla were not so lucky.

[strider]

Suburbanite:  The house I think you are talking about was done by a couple who bought it as a burn out, got married in the burnout and then restored the house as a bed and breakfast. While they no longer own that house, they still live in Springfield, actually just around the corner.

None of us preservationists really have a problem with the codes.  Unfortunately, the actual codes do not matter much in these cases as Ms Scott doesn't have to follow them herself, she can make things up as she goes.  OK, so that isn't exactly true but only seems like it.  Ms Scott, as the Chief of Municipal Code Compliance was given a wide range of power to interpret those codes and laws.  She directs her inspectors in how to apply those codes and so the true intent - the helping of and protecting of the residents of Jacksonville - becomes secondary to some ego trip she is on.   We do indeed have a problem with that. You should as well.  She could be sending someone to your house next.

The car is perhaps the biggest reason places like Avondale and Riverside took the top spot from Springfield. Even so, Springfield remained somewhat exclusive until the sixties.  The same thing that happened to the vast majority  of urban areas across the country happened to Jacksonville's.  Suburban living won, urban living lost and was left for the poorer among us.

Springfield was certainly "redlined".  It was a huge issue for a couple of decades.  The 1998 auction helped to change that.

The original SPAR was created because an ordinance was going through city council in about 1974 that basically would have started the "bulldozers" at the parks and not stopped them until 20th Street.  Brent Stanton of Old Time Hardware was part of that and has great information about it.

[ChriswUfGator]

Who is "Big Nugget" LOL! I'm a genuine newbie to this site. My writing style is tongue-in-cheek, if that's offensive, stop taking yourself so seriously. I am a long time resident (since 1974, age 12), who knows the west bank neighborhoods as good, if not better, than anyone. Please, I'm admittedly no Wayne Wood, but I am intimately acquainted with the area. I'm also very acquainted with Springfield, too.
I never doubted the existence of a pending contract on 2nd and Liberty, just the ability to successfully close. My interests are architecture, city planning, and sociology; not necessarily in that particular order. I'm not formally trained, but read as much as I can. Yes, it's sad to see these buildings go, but to patch and band-aid them at city cost is crazy talk. As if we don't have more pressing needs than those dubious wants. Historic fabric? That's not going anywhere. Unless of course the city tries to "La Villa" the neighborhood, which I would oppose. But I don't see that happening. What I do see is people blaming the city for being in a no-win situation. Leave the structures, shore 'em up, confiscate 'em, sell 'em, with only a hope and a prayer the cycle doesn't repeat itself, while endangering nearby lives and property values; or knock'em down, removing any danger, and allow for a new beginning. Springfield will never be what it was, the Acosta Bridge and Riverside-Avondale sealed that envelope. But there is plenty of hope for it, let it evolve.

The contract was with MetroNorth CDC, I think they'd have no trouble finding the funds.

[thelakelander]

Oh, I know those policies are still at play. I own a couple of properties in the area and it's been pure hell working with banks and appraisers.