One of the Conservative Bitters Planned Mass Murder of Christian Congregation.

[BridgeTroll]

Unitarians have as much claim to Christianity as Pentecostals or any of the rest of us heretics belonging to the general Protestant heading that denies transusbstantiation, Apostolic Succession or the sacraments.

NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Pope.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise....

[BridgeTroll]

Mel Brooks!!  I love it!

[uptowngirl]

Actually, Sweden and Spain give higher per capita for real charity and development aid to other countries than the US, Driven.

That was true for a while, especially after WW2, when Europe was still rebuilding, but hasnt been true since the 90s.  In fact, the US actually withheld UN dues which went wholly to world hunger funds over some political debate for several years.

Additionally our own charitable donations are somewhat clouded by our tax laws, as endowing a foundation for the purposes of conserving a private fortune counts as 'charity'.

For example, the Vanderbilt family has donated the use of the Biltmore Estates to public viewing and as a museum.  They retain the ownership of the Estates and total control of the family properties revert back to Vanderbilt control eventually.  However while it is presently open, they pay no taxes on the real estate, and the several hundred million that constitutes the value of the endowment counts as 'charity'.

This kind of distortion led to the use of actual development aid monies to other countries as the gauge of charitability.

I also do not remember the study showing any particular group of Americans being more or less charitable based on faith.  Do you remember the link?

Giving to the UN is political in and of itself so I would throw this oen right out the window.

Second Stephen are we talking cold hard cash, or goods, services, and actual human volunteers? IS this private donations or "country govenrment" donations. Big difference here also. Can you post the supporitng documentation for your comments, because this is news to me. As many people as hate us around the the world, they can almost w/o fail all agree we give more than anyone else. They may not always want what we give (democracy in Iraq comes to mind...sorry couldn't help myself! ) but they would agree we give more, especially in times of severe distress.


In any case on topic, I don't think being conservative or liberal had anythign to do with this, I think the guy was juts nuts.

[jaxnative]

Obviously the status of their denominational credentials makes it ok to murder them in cold blood, since they were liberals.

So much for this damn thread.  How in the hell did a rhetorical question about the doctrine of Christ's divinity and it's bearing on questions of core Christian beliefs come down to this idiotic level?  When I left much earlier I thought it was leading to some interesting opinions and food for thought.  Wrong!

[BridgeTroll]

I apologize also for bringing Monty Python to this thread... sorry...

[Ocklawaha]

This nut job was perhaps the product of the tiny "independent" churches that claim to be Baptist or other orthodox faiths, but won't hold any of their teachings. They tend to fall in the farm and lumber belts and mountain reigons of the Country. The have no redeeming value to Christian or Universalism. While I think in his own sick way he was "doing the work of God". Gee where have we heard that before? I think the Universalist denial of the Diety is perhaps at the heart of whatever he was programed to think. But I doubt he ever read the Bible, or any other book for that matter, or he would have known better. No where did Christ say to Teach the World or Kill them ALL! Geeze.

On the flip side his life was probably puerile and under-dramatized. He lacked any sense of structure, character, or the Aristotelian unities. But not to worry, in prison he will finally meet someone special, someone VERY special, someone who won't file manslaughter charges.

OCKLAWAHA

[uptowngirl]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_charitable_countries

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/233106/america_the_most_charitable_nation.html?cat=37

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19409188/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm


Now that addressed, My whole point about this guy is no matter what he wrote in his suicide letter, he is nuts so you can only take it with a grain of salt. This is no different to me than the Son of Sam sayinf his neighbors dog told him to do it. In the end these poor people still went through this traumatic event and people lost their lives. It seems there may have been more going on too, I saw a report where his ex-wife was a member of the church and he had some issues in that corner.

[uptowngirl]

Are you serious? How much do you hate your country?  In REAL terms (that is actual $ amounts) the USA donates more. As with everything else, you can find the negative.... this small picture you are looking at does not take into account the INDIVIDUAL American's doantions, nor does it look at non-profit groups (such as churches) individual donations. We kick everyone elses rear end in the individual "giving" so who really gives a flying hooptedoo about this category? Or do you think the government should give more and the people give less? The peoples donations make it to the end, where the governments get skimmed more.

I guess a Europhile would love this accoutning since:

If a donor country accords a grant or a concessional loan to Afghanistan it is classified as ODA, because it is on the Part I list.
If a donor country accords a grant or a concessional loan to Bahrain it is classified as OA, because it is on the Part II list.
If a donor country gives military assistance to any other country or territory it is classified as OOF, because it is not aimed at development.

[uptowngirl]

dudette please...

I didn't call anyone a name. I just stated the facts. The fact is America gives more in real terms, it even states so within the link you posted. Take this along with the fact individuals in America donate more individually, add to that ODA :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Development_Assistance

and then add to that the OOF and America far surpasses every other country out there.

Dude, Im sorry that the facts make you angry.

Nor do I think that the easter bunny is originally from oklahoma, either he is obviosuly from Germany!

[uptowngirl]

I can't argue with you on any of that, All I can argue is that overall America far exceeds any other country as far as giving, period.

[RiversideGator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_Development_Assistance

is the money shot on that page, ug.

also simple math would make the point even clearer.

Europe and the US are about similar in size.

Add up the European total and compare it to the US total.

The UK and France alone equal the US amounts spent on Charity, despite the fact that there are 124 million people between the two countries, and 304 million in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Interesting bit of sophistry here.  If you only consider development aid as charity, then the US is not as charitable.  However, here in the real world all of the other charity counts and the US is the most charitable nation on Earth.

[RiversideGator]

BTW, Stephen's original point in posting this story was to attempt to tar conservatives with the actions of this lone nut.  The truth is no sane conservative is in favor of shooting anyone (except perhaps for terrorists) much less unitarians, regardless of whether or not they can be considered Christian.  End of story.

[RiversideGator]

So, do you consider the left similarly tarred by its association with the violent radicals of the 1960s (including Obama's friend William Ayers)?  How about the left's associations with the communists who murdered people by the tens of millions in an attempt to advance their perverse ideology of ending religion and the redistribution of wealth?

[RiversideGator]

Oh and speaking of assassination, I cannot recall how many times I have heard people on the left fantasize about this "solution" for Bush. 

[RiversideGator]

Sorry.  Meeting with officials of foreign governments is not in any way analogous to condoning domestic terrorism or applauding murderous ideologues.