Views on Heaven, is it real or a fantasy?

[Garden guy]

The mind is a beautiful thing...simply because we have awe in a thing or thought does not make it heavenly or of god...heaven was simply a coping tool of existence...

[ronchamblin]

I agree that the idea of heaven was probably invented by man, and doesn't have to exist in the scheme of things.  Actually my thoughts regarding the event I described, was to wonder not so much about a "heaven", but to wonder whether or not there was any communication between me and something outside of myself. 

But of course, if there was actually some kind of communication between me and some supernatural entity, then we might assume a reasonable probability that it involved some kind of a god-like entity..... which doesn't necessarily include a heaven.   

This big question I've had however is whether the event I've described was all within my mind, or actually some kind of engagement with an entity outside of my mind.

So far, the weight falls on the probability that my tunnel event was all within my mind.  Oh well, maybe later I can engage a supernatural entity.     

[Cheshire Cat]

The mind is a beautiful thing...simply because we have awe in a thing or thought does not make it heavenly or of god...heaven was simply a coping tool of existence...

I think heaven or the thought of heaven may indeed help many people to cope in their lives, but the idea or view that there is a heaven doesn't always have to do with simply coping with life.  Is it your view that when our physical life is over that we simply cease to exist?

I have found in many discussions over the years that a good number of people who don't believe in a God or a hereafter base those beliefs on what science and evolution tells them.  Others feelings about God are based upon what they see as the tremendous pain's and unjust challenges we experience on earth as proof that there is no God, because what God could allow people to suffer so?  For me the science can and does marry up to the spiritual side of things and one does not threaten the other.

If your view is born of science and evolution I wonder what reason you think there is for the human mind to be able to experience awe?  What evolutionary purpose would that serve?

Not challenging your views just wanting to make sure I understand your thoughts and statements. 

[Cheshire Cat]

Upon reviewing this thread about gods, heaven, and the supernatural, I discovered where Chesire Cat (Diane), post #84, had invited me to convey some detail of my three encounters with what seemed to be, or could have been, something supernatural; that is, outside of my ability to understand the physical causes of certain phenomena.

In spite of my being an atheist (evil person), I am always open to any events which might move me from the position of atheism.  In fact, I’ve sought with intention, and even requested, as if in prayer to any entity who might hear me, any “sign” of there being something supernatural which might actually exist.

So, the following is an account of what happened late in the year 2001, while I was living in a small apartment above my workshop, waiting for my house to be completed. 

The event occurred after I had gone to bed in the late evening, and while I was in that state wherein I was awake, but relaxed and before  slipping into the sleep state. 

Something during the day, perhaps a television program about near death experiences ... tunnels etc...  had made me curious as to the existence of a god and the supernatural, so I found myself, while in bed relaxing, asking any entity which might be about me, or anywhere in the universe who could possibly hear my thoughts, to give me a “sign” - anything to allow me to believe, as others seem to have been able to do, in some kind of supernatural being, a god, or  any entity of power greater than we humans.  I thought twice, perhaps three times, “Give me a sign”. 

No drugs.... no alcohol mind you .... only a wish to know... and perhaps a longing for something more than just me and the physical world around me.

In any case, a few seconds after my last request for a sign, I distinctly remember an odd feeling of calm, but also, within my mind, began to emerge a vision of a tunnel, a long tunnel, fuzzy or wavy about the perimeter, with a dull light at the end of it.  I felt myself going toward the light, down the tunnel, and although I felt a slight apprehension, I did not initially feel fear, as I somehow sensed that the entity, if there was one, would do no harm to me.  It seems to me that once one is faced with a powerful entity, logic and common sense informs that the entity has no motive to harm.  And too, there is nothing one can do in the presence of an all-powerful entity. 

To continue... I allowed myself to slip further into the tunnel, but as I journeyed, I became somewhat concerned, and as result of an uncomfortable feeling, withdrew my will to continue.  I returned to my normal waking state, and thought about this interesting journey, and as I relaxed further, regretted somewhat my abortion of it.

It was interesting that while I was allowing myself to drift down the tunnel, I sensed that I could continue to the end of it if that had been my desire.  My hesitation to continue down the tunnel was a consequence of my not knowing what I would have encountered at the end of it.  I had a slight awareness of the possibility that my life would have ended if I had continued.  Although I sensed that the ending of my life would have been okay, I felt that I was not ready for it to end. If felt that the entity, whatever it was, was a good entity, and therefore, had good intentions for me.

Of course, this mental event could have existed entirely, and only, within my mind, and could have been generated from the pressures of  persistent questions about the supernatural which had haunted me for years.

Whereas this event was initiated  by me, the other two came upon me out of the blue so to speak.  But I will continue with these at a later time.   

This kind of experience causes me to always question the nature of it, the validity of it, and whether it was entirely in my mind, or perhaps was an engagement with something outside of my mind.     

   

First let me say I certainly don't think people whose beliefs are different than my own are "evil" and this includes atheists.  Since you have referred to yourself in this fashion more than once I can only conclude that you are perhaps creating an "outsider" personality for yourself. When one considers the broad beliefs embraced around the world, there really is no mainstream version of spirituality or even the lack thereof.  Different beliefs do not equate to an evil nature, so you can leave that idea alone.  lol

I find the experience you shared interesting as well as your thoughts about why it happened to you and what it may mean.  What you described is pretty much a classic example of what many people have recited as what they experienced when near death or after being clinically dead and then revived.  It is interesting to me at least, that the experience came as a direct result of a request by you to a higher consciousness to "send you a sign" about God and experience beyond physical life.  You well know that science has often said that the tunnel effect and bright light as well as the calm is simply the result of a dying brain.  The question in your case then becomes why did you have the experience when you were clearly not dying, but simply relaxing?  It is interesting to note that you had the feeling that if you headed fully into the light at the end of the tunnel that you would die.  You also shared that you felt the presence of an "entity" that you knew was peaceful and loving in nature.

The state of relaxation you were in was likely the state of "alpha" which is a place between waking and deep sleep.  Alpha is also the state that many hope to reach during meditation.  It is a mental space where the mind is quieter.  Spiritual avatars and old way teachers know that in order to really hear what the universe is saying, you must first quiet the mind. 

Now you are faced with trying to understand what you experienced.  Was it of imagination or was it really an answer to your query from a divine or higher entity?  I think in order to get the answer you seek however, you have to decide what you "know" inside.  Not what your mind tells you, not what you can rationalize but simply what you "know" inside.  What you intuit.  You can of course rationalize what happened to you but if you do so you may also "dismiss" an experience given to you as a "sign" of truth which is exactly what you asked for.  It all comes down to what the core of your being tells you about what happened.  The knowing you are looking for will not be found in your intellect or your mind.  I think this is why many fail to see or experience what is beyond the physical because they are only looking to the material for the answers they seek.

Let me put it to you this way.  What good would it do me to order a book of wisdom if I cannot read?  I may be able to look at pictures if there are any in the book but I could then only surmise their meaning.  The full text of the book would be lost to me.  The earth we live upon and all the beings that share it with us and our universe are the "book" of truth.  Perhaps those who don't understand what is beyond the conscious mind have not yet learned how to read the pages upon which our existence is written, which is our world, our universe and all that surrounds us, including other dimensions.