One of the Conservative Bitters Planned Mass Murder of Christian Congregation.

[stephendare]

Thank God for the brave man who was willing to take the bullets for all those poor kids.

A true Christian Martyr.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25872864

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. - An unemployed man accused of opening fire with a shotgun and killing two people at a Unitarian church apparently targeted the congregation out of hatred for its liberal social policies, police said Monday.

Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said a letter had been been recovered from the SUV of Jim D. Adkisson, 58, by investigators seeking clues about the motive behind the attack. Authorities said he was an apparent stranger to the Tennessee church where gunfire punctuated a children's performance based on the musical "Annie." Two people were killed and seven wounded Sunday.

"It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said at a news conference.
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No children were hurt, but five people remained in serious or critical condition Monday. A burly usher who died is being hailed as a hero for shielding others from gunfire Sunday at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. Witnesses said some of the men present tackled a man who pulled a shotgun from a guitar case before at least three blasts rang out.

Adkisson, who is charged with first-degree murder, remained jailed Monday under "close observation" on $1 million bail, authorities said.

The Unitarian-Universalist church promotes progressive social work, including advocacy of women and gay rights. The Knoxville congregation also has provided sanctuary for political refugees, fed the homeless and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, according to its Web site.

'Had 76 rounds with him'
Owen said the letter indicated Adkisson, who neighbors said had previously worked as a truck driver, did not expect to leave the church alive. He added the man also reported having no family or next-of-kin.

"He certainly intended to take a lot of casualties," Owen said. "He had 76 rounds with him."

Police said Adkisson carried a 12-guage semiautomatic shotgun into the church in a guitar case, but it appeared no specific person was targeted in the church. A search of his house also turned up a .38 caliber handgun, Owen added.

Investigators were reviewing several home video recordings of the children's performance for any evidence. Owen said police don't plan to release those videos and they did not make public a copy of Adkisson's letter.

Unitarians have roots in a movement that rejected Puritan orthodoxy in New England. Although the outlook and beliefs of individual Unitarian churches can vary dramatically, most congregations retain a deep commitment to social justice, which has led them to embrace liberal positions over the years. Unitarians were among the first to ordain women, support the civil rights movement and back gay rights.

The shooting started as about 200 people watched a show put on by 25 children.

Church member Mark Harmon said he was in the first row when he heard "an incredibly loud bang." He thought the noise was part of the play, then he heard another bang and saw a woman bleeding as he dove for cover.

"It seems so unreal," Harmon said.

Victim 'took the blast'
Church members praised Greg McKendry, 60, who died as he attempted to block the gunfire. Barbara Kemper said that McKendry "stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us."

Kemper said the gunman shouted before he opened fire.

"It was hateful words. He was saying hateful things," she said, refusing to elaborate.

"Greg McKendry was a very large gentleman, one of those people you might describe as a refrigerator with a head," said church member Schera Chadwick. "He looked like a football player. He did obviously stand up and put himself in between the shooter and the congregation."

A second victim was identified as Linda Kraeger, 61. She died at a hospital hours later, Kenner said.

Officials said Adkisson was arraigned Sunday night and faces his next court appearance Aug. 5.

Other Unitarian congregations held tearful services afterward. At a packed Westside Unitarian Universalist Church in suburban Farragut, congregants prayed, sang and consoled each other.

The shooting follows a December 2007 spree in which a man shot four staff members at a missionary training center near Denver, Colo., killing two, after being told he couldn't spend the night. About 12 hours later and 65 miles away in Colorado Springs, police say the 24-year-old man fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch and wounded four others before killing himself.

[Driven1]

btw, i'm sure most know this, but Unitarian Universalist is not "Christian".  therefore, this was not a Christian congregation.  a terrible tragedy nonetheless.

Unitarian Universalism (UUism) is a theologically liberal religion characterized by its support for a "free and responsible search for truth and meaning." Unitarian Universalists do not share a creed; rather, they are unified by their shared search for spiritual growth. Unitarian Universalists draw on many different theological sources and have a wide range of beliefs and practices.

Both Unitarianism and Universalism trace their origins to Christian Protestantism and thus Unitarian Universalism has its historical roots in the Christian faith. But by the time they decided to combine their efforts at the continental level, the theological significance of these terms had expanded beyond the traditional Christian understanding. Today’s UUs appreciate and value aspects of other religions ranging from Judaism to Jainism. Although Unitarian Universalist congregations and fellowships tend to retain some Christian traditions, such as Sunday worship with a sermon and the singing of hymns, they do not necessarily identify themselves as Christians nor do they necessarily subscribe to Christian beliefs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

[Driven1]

consider...

1. Source of Authority. The UUs deny the divine inspiration and absolute authority of the Scriptures. They claim the Bible was merely the creation of men, and therefore, the Bible contains many "inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and errors." They substitute human reason for revelation as their source of authority, and believe there are no absolute or infallible guides, including reason. [HJB] In fact, UUs desire a world religion that "draws from and honors the teachings of all of the great religious traditions."

2. Trinity. The UUs deny that one God exists in three Persons. Instead, they claim that Trinitarian doctrine was added by the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325. [HJB]

3. God. The UUs hold a variety of liberal views about God: Some do not believe that He is a Person, but instead claim He is an impersonal spirit, a natural force, or a principle. Some even claim that He is a created being, not supernatural. Others even deny His existence completely.

4. Jesus Christ. The UUs deny the deity of Christ -- that He is not God and Savior, but only a good man and teacher. They claim that the apostles and other Christian writers added to the Scriptures the teachings concerning Christ's atonement for sin.

5. Salvation. The UUs teach that the essence of salvation is character development ("deeds not creeds"), rather than faith in Jesus Christ alone -- the "social gospel" reigns supreme in UU. This belief allows every person to do whatever is right in his own eyes as long as he is sincere about it (including homosexual behavior -- UU became the first denomination to call for the legal recognition of same-sex marriages [Associated Press:6/25/96]; as early as 1970, UUs called for an end to discrimination against homosexuals and bisexuals, and in 1980, UUs resolved that homosexuals should be ordained.).

6. Hell. The UUs hold the "universalist" belief that no one will be eternally condemned. They, therefore, deny the existence of hell, claiming it is unreasonable for a loving God to send people to a place of eternal torment. They believe that we suffer the consequences of sin in this life only. [HJB]

http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/unitari.htm

also, consider...

...only 9.5% of Unitarian-Universalists describe themselves as some kind of Christian. Members of UUA churches describe their theological perspectives in various ways.  A recent internal UUA survey of over 8,000 members showed that roughly 46% considered their own theological perspective to be humanism and 19% were earth-centered. Mere theism describes 13% of them and 6% of them prefer mysticism.

http://www.ontruth.com/uua.html

btw, in the most respectful way possible, i could care less if John Adams or any other President was or was not a UU. 

# 4 above is the real kicker.  compare that to the places Jesus claimed he was God...

The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." (John 8:57-59)

"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him." Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how do you say, 'Show us the Father'?" (John 14:6-9)


also, in response to #6...  according to Jesus, hell is a real place of eternal condemnation...

"Hell (the greek word "gehenna") occurs in the NT twelve times - eleven on the lips of Jesus." (John Piper, "Desiring God", page 58) (my note:  UU's have good reason to not believe Jesus as they don't see him as God in flesh while on earth - see # 3 above).

"Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones into the eternal fire..." 
Matt 25:41



so - the point is UUs are UUs, not Christians.  sure, they had Christian roots as an opposing movement to the Great Awakening of the 1700s, but calling them Christians now would be like calling Christians "Jews" - since our Christian faith had its origination in the Judaism of 2000 years ago.   ...or calling Muslims "Christians" - Islam derived from Christianity 1400 years ago.

[jaxnative]

I don't disparage anyone for their beliefs unless it results in harm to others but with the information that I have read I believe there are serious grounds whether to consider this belief system "Christian".

Unitarians
A Liberal Protestant sect which holds as it distinctive tenet the belief in a uni-personal instead of a tri-personal God.

Name and doctrine
In its general sense the name designates all disbelievers in the Trinity, whether Christian or non-Christian; in its present specific use it is applied to that organized form of Christianity which lays emphasis on the unity of the personality of God. The term seems to have originated about 1570, was used in a decree of the Diet held in 1600 at Lecsfalva in Transylvania, and received official ecclesiastic sanction in 1638. It supplanted the various designations of anti-Trinitarians, Arians, Racovians, and Socinians. In England the name first appears in 1682. It became frequent in the United States from 1815, although it was received unfavourably by some anti-Trinitarians, and omitted in their official titles by some congregations whose religious position it defined. The explanation of this opposition is to be found in the reluctance of the parties concerned to lay stress on any doctrinal affirmation. Historical associations account for the name Presbyerians, frequently applied to Unitarians in the British Isles, and Unitarian Congregationalists, used in the United States. No definite standard of belief is recognized in the denomination and no doctrinal tests are laid down as a condition of fellowship. The co-operation of all persons desirous of advancing the interests of "pure" (i.e. undogmatic, practical) Christianity is welcomed in the Unitarian body.

In granting this co-operation each member enjoys complete freedom in his individual religious opinions, and no set of doctrinal propositions could be framed on which all Unitarians would agree. The bond of union between them consists more in their anti-dogmatic tendency than in uniformity of belief. The authority of the Bible is in some degree retained; but its contents are either admitted or repudiated according as they find favor before the supreme, and in this case, exacting tribunal of individual reason. Jesus Christ is considered subordinate to the Father and, although the epithet Divine is in a loose sense not infrequently applied to Him, He is in the estimation of many an extraordinarily endowed and powerful but still a human religious leader. He is a teacher to be followed, not a God to be worshipped. His Passion and Death are an inspiration and an example to His disciples, not an effective and vicarious atonement for the sins of men. He is the great exemplar which we ought to copy in order to perfect our union with God gradually. This teaching concerning the mission of Jesus Christ is but the logical complement of the Unitarian denial of the Fall of Man and with similar consistency leads to the suppression of the sacraments. Two of these (baptism and Eucharist) are indeed retained, but their grace-conferring power is denied and their reception declared unnecessary. Baptism is administered to children (rarely to adults) more for sentimental reasons and purposes for edification than from the persuasion of the spiritual results produced in the soul of the recipient. The Eucharist, far from being considered as sacrificial, is looked upon as a merely memorial service. The fond hope of universal salvation is entertained by the majority of the denomination.

In short, present-day Unitarianism is hardly more than natural religion, and exhibits in some of its members a pronounced tendency towards Pantheistic speculation. The Church polity in England and America is strictly congregational; each individual congregation manages, without superior control, all its affairs, calls and discharges its minister, and is the final judge of the religious views expressed in its pulpit. In Transylvania the Church government is exercised by a bishop who resides at Kolozsvár (Klausenburg) and is assisted by a consistory. The episcopal title which he bears does not imply special consecration but mearly designates the office of an ecclesiatical supervisor.

www.newadvent.com

[Driven1]

a terrible tragedy nonetheless.

[Driven1]

"a lamentable, dreadful, or fatal event or affair"

[jaxnative]

For example we do not believe in the doctrine of transubstantiation either, so on the basis of this idea, most baptists could not be considered christian either.

I fully inderstand this doctrinal difference.  But can a faith still be considered Christian when Christ is not considered divine?  I know there is a lot of room here for semantics but just studying and even following many of the teachings of Christ can make one Christian-like and/or inspired.  Baptists and Catholics may have their doctrinal differences but the divinity of Christ is not one of them.  The Unitarians seem to have more in common with the Islamic and Jewish faiths when it come to the radical oneness of God.  Of course, the differences in the perception of God are tolerated to a great degree by the Unitarians.

I know this isn't a religious thread so I will refrain from further comments.

[Driven1]

he did not refer to the UU's rejection of the trinity doctrine.  he referred to their rejection of Christ's claim as God. 

and Stephen, you cite the examples of JW, Christian Scientists, New Age and Mormons...you are correct about the first 3 rejecting the trinity.  that is why they are viewed as cults outside of Christianity.  Mormons actually distort the trinity.  and, along with a lot of other reasons, this is why they are viewed as a cult outside of Christianity as well. 

but jaxnative, the logic behind your argument is strong and correct...

But can a faith still be considered Christian when Christ is not considered divine? 

the obvious answer to your rhetorical question is "no".

[Driven1]

But can a faith still be considered Christian when Christ is not considered divine? 

i wanted to explore jaxnative's question a little further...


"Let's explore Christ's claim of deity in the New Testament. Jesus claimed to be God. This point is crucial to the overall argument. The logic behind this begins with the statement that truth about reality is knowable. There are some things of which we can be absolutely sure (i.e., 2+2=4). It is also true that the opposite of truth is false. The Law of Non-contradiction says opposite ideas cannot be both true at the same time and in the same place. That means all religions cannot be true if they teach opposites. Opposites cannot both be true at the same time or in the same place."

So - IF Christ claims he is God - and IF Christianity (the following,belief,receipt of and turning to Christ) is true - then any religion that reject's Christ's claim of divinity must be false.  At the very least, even the simplest logician must admit that any religion rejecting Christ's claim of divinity is not Christ-centered...that is to say, is not Christian.

[Driven1]

stephen - please flesh out for me what you mean by "wherein is the nature of the Divine?"...

sorry for not understanding immediately.  use simple terms for my benefit too. 

[Driven1]

ok - this will take some time to prove my points - but yes, early Christians DID believe Jesus was "endowed with godhood".  i will also show where they did consider him much greater than Moses.   and i will specifically answer these questions...

This is one of the central conflicts of Christian belief.  Was Christ physically divine?  Or was he spiritually divine?  Or was he both?

If he was physically divine, then why bother with the human birth process?   Why did he die?

actually, not I, but Scripture will.  will take some time though.  probably by tomorrow afternoon (we have an appt in the morning).

[Eazy E]

Sure, let's malign a faith of people, stating that they are not Christian, while the other "Christians" openly endorse hatred of foreigners, killing of innocent people in an illegal war, hatred of boys who like to kiss boys (but not priests who like to), destruction of the planet that GOD Himself made, hatred/uncaring attitude towards the poor (which Jesus Himself would disdain), the death penalty, and on and on.  So, stating that a Universalist Unitarian is not a Christian, but the war-lovin', gay-hatin', non-charitable guy who goes to First Baptist is a Christian seems mighty dumb to me.

[Driven1]

Sure, let's malign a faith of people, stating that they are not Christian, while the other "Christians" openly endorse hatred of foreigners, killing of innocent people in an illegal war, hatred of boys who like to kiss boys (but not priests who like to), destruction of the planet that GOD Himself made, hatred/uncaring attitude towards the poor (which Jesus Himself would disdain), the death penalty, and on and on.  So, stating that a Universalist Unitarian is not a Christian, but the war-lovin', gay-hatin', non-charitable guy who goes to First Baptist is a Christian seems mighty dumb to me.

easy Eazy.  you seem to have a lot of pent up rage.  no one has maligned any faith.  Is Islam Taoism?  No?  why not?  Please try and convince me why Islam is NOT Taoism.

If UU is Christianity, why can't Islam be Taoism?  Is it maligning Islam to say that it is not Taoism?  I certainly think not. 

Btw, America (supposedly being a "Christian" nation) is the most charitable nation in the world.  And to press that particular issue further, I think there was an article posted on here (I think it was before you joined us) that showed the results of a study that proved that your hated Baptists and other small-town conservative church-goers gave more than the big-city rich unfaithful who were not believers.  Sad, but true.

[Eazy E]

Sure, let's malign a faith of people, stating that they are not Christian, while the other "Christians" openly endorse hatred of foreigners, killing of innocent people in an illegal war, hatred of boys who like to kiss boys (but not priests who like to), destruction of the planet that GOD Himself made, hatred/uncaring attitude towards the poor (which Jesus Himself would disdain), the death penalty, and on and on.  So, stating that a Universalist Unitarian is not a Christian, but the war-lovin', gay-hatin', non-charitable guy who goes to First Baptist is a Christian seems mighty dumb to me.

easy Eazy.  you seem to have a lot of pent up rage.  no one has maligned any faith.  Is Islam Taoism?  No?  why not?  Please try and convince me why Islam is NOT Taoism.

If UU is Christianity, why can't Islam be Taoism?  Is it maligning Islam to say that it is not Taoism?  I certainly think not. 

Btw, America (supposedly being a "Christian" nation) is the most charitable nation in the world.  And to press that particular issue further, I think there was an article posted on here (I think it was before you joined us) that showed the results of a study that proved that your hated Baptists and other small-town conservative church-goers gave more than the big-city rich unfaithful who were not believers.  Sad, but true.

Well, in my experiences, the Christians i Know are some of the most uncharitable people I know.
And, in looking at how First Baptist (JUST AS AN EXAMPLE) treates the homeless that literally surround their church, I am less than impressed.
And, yes, I do have rage because I see teachings of Christ distorted in the most disgusting ways by supposed "Christians" on a daily basis in this town.

[RiversideGator]

Actually, Sweden and Spain give higher per capita for real charity and development aid to other countries than the US, Driven.

That was true for a while, especially after WW2, when Europe was still rebuilding, but hasnt been true since the 90s.  In fact, the US actually withheld UN dues which went wholly to world hunger funds over some political debate for several years.

You are referring only to government aid programs.  Private individuals can give to charity also and it is usually far more effective.  If you look at all charity, public and private, the US is far and away the world's leader in giving (if I am recalling the stats correctly).