Ten Historic Springfield Demolitions

[BigNugget]

I've read this thread.  Thats why I referenced it sarcastically.  Aside from John P - who seems to be the lone voice of reason on this message board all of the blame was pointed at the city.

Here is the thing the Springfield Plastics building is a piece of shit.  Why is it a piece of shit? A: because the owner neglected it and when he wasn't neglecting it he was applying jerry-rigged patches.  The villain in this story is the owner not the city.  The owner clearly doesn't have the resources or the inclination to maintain his historic structure and because of that he ruined the building - or at least damaged it to the point that it will be very expensive to bring it back to full code compliance. But all of the finger pointing is toward the city except for John P.

Here is a case where the city would be the real villain; if they came in and condemned and shut down a business that was maintaining their property to and above code.  If they came in and condemned Three Layers or Sweet Petes.  That of course would never and could never happen because both of those businesses maintain their property.

That brings to mind - how did Sweet Petes ever happen? It would seem that the COA process would have prevented it.  Most people get hassled changing their window frames and yet Sweet Pete turned a historic home into a cartoon castle? How did that happen.  I personally love it but figured that the preservationist types would have put a stop to it before it started.

quote author=BigNugget link=topic=18780.msg334471#msg334471 date=1372513598

Ironically no finger is ever pointed at the people and no judgement is ever cast at the people who really caused the problem in the first place; the people who neglected their property to the point where the city has to interview and demolish.

"Springfield Plastics was condemned! The city is SO MEAN!! Isn't it terrible!"

No. The city isn't mean. The owner of Springfield Plastics let his building slide into disrepair and when he wasn't neglecting the property he was applying half-ass, not to code, jerry-rigged patches.

So... take your crooked little fingers that are pointed at the zoning board and turn them and point them toward the irresponsible property owners who let this happen in the first place.

Perhaps before you post things like the above, you need to do some reading.  There is a thread about Springfield Plastics, here:http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,18043.0.html

As you can see, if you bothered to go educate yourself, is that I freely admitted that the owner should have repaired his building and needed that kick in the rear.  What we take exception to is what the process is and the methods used.  Frankly, it appears that Ms Scott and her minions get off on the misery of others.  Very sad that a department in this city that is intended to help everyone is actually used to hurt people when they often need help the most.

In the case of Springfield plastics, even though the owner is being hindered at every turn, he has found the funding needed and we will be helping him get his building repaired.  While getting what is needed to be done taken care of on his building will be easy, getting it out of MCC's claws will be difficult at best.  If you decide to read the thread in the future, you will see exactly what I mean.  Unless of course, Ms Scott and Company is moved on before we get to that point and things are changed to how the department is supposed to operate.

[MEGATRON]

Strider, the over-the-top condescending tone in your posts above are exactly why BigNugget's friends told him not to post on here.  Its obnoxious as hell.

[sheclown]

You cannot defend neglect.

It happens for a variety of reasons, some are within the control of the owners, some are not.

PSOS, at times,  gets frustrated with the owners, truth be told.  PSOS, at times, has great compassion for the plight of the owners.

Regardless of the owners, these structures, by ordinance and law, transcend their current owners.

PSOS believes in "helping, not hindering". 

Be it the neighborhood, or the city.

You don't punish the house for the crimes of its owners.  It is the city's responsibility to protect them.  Period. 

[sheclown]

Strider, the over-the-top condescending tone in your posts above are exactly why BigNugget's friends told him not to post on here.  Its obnoxious as hell.

and yet, you keep coming on back....

[MEGATRON]

Strider, the over-the-top condescending tone in your posts above are exactly why BigNugget's friends told him not to post on here.  Its obnoxious as hell.

and yet, you keep coming on back....

Notwithstanding a few of the preservationists on the site that refuse to recognize economic realities, there us tons of great content on MJ. 

[BigNugget]

Here is the thing. A lot of people - probably the majority - live here because they dig the rare urban vibe in an otherwise suburban city. Maybe they like old houses and buildings.  I know I do. But we aren't activists. We quietly go about our lives in a responsible manner - we go to work - we pay our taxes - we don't break the law - we maintain our property and we are generally a positive influence on the community.

My hope and I would speculate that the non-activist majority feels the same way - is that the neighborhood continues to get better though renovations and re-use of the historic buildings in the area but also welcome and encourage the construction of new buildings that fit in with the fabric of the area.  These new buildings bring with them high quality responsible neighbors who like us will generally be a positive influence on the area.

At the same time we realize that not all old buildings are worth saving.  Not every house built in 1909 is an architectural masterpiece.  Some of them were shitboxes in 1909 and they are still shitboxes today.  Some have been neglected beyond any hope of salvage. And if a few of the worst structures are lost to make way for new construction which will actually increase the demand for the authentic historic buildings.

Again the narrative toward me is "clearly you don't belong here you should move to..." because you want responsible, professional people who maintain their property and increase the economic viability of the area out because we don't want to paint hearts on buildings that we view as dilapidated shitboxes?  Because I the responsible citizen and property owner is the problem? Again the finger is pointed in the wrong direction. 

Strider, the over-the-top condescending tone in your posts above are exactly why BigNugget's friends told him not to post on here.  Its obnoxious as hell.

[iloveionia]

Bulldoze Springfield.
Line 'em up and knock 'em down.
Especially those shitbox houses at Dancy Terrace.

[sheclown]

We have an abundance of empty neglected lots for infill.  Hundreds. 

[BigNugget]

Speaking of shitboxes on 10th st.  What is the deal with the house on the corner of Hubbard and E. 10th? Seems like every day I drive past another window is broken and more bedsheets and crap are stuffed into where the window should be.  So while they have the EXCAVATOR warmed up from knocking down Dancy Terrace they should head over and take that one out too.

Bulldoze Springfield.
Line 'em up and knock 'em down.
Especially those shitbox houses at Dancy Terrace.

[strider]

Strider, the over-the-top condescending tone in your posts above are exactly why BigNugget's friends told him not to post on here.  Its obnoxious as hell.

Ha Ha,  been called worse that condescending for telling the truth before.

[sheclown]

Bulldoze Springfield.
Line 'em up and knock 'em down.
Especially those shitbox houses at Dancy Terrace.

Nicole loves Dancy and is being sarcastic, btw.

[KuroiKetsunoHana]

A friend of mine told me "Never ever ever post on the forums - only the crazy people and the extremists post on the forums."  I know I am going to regret not taking the advice but here goes.  I feel like John P is a lone sane rational voice in a crown of maniacs and I completely agree with him.

First let assign blame where it belongs... the property owners who neglected their property to the point where it was condemned. The city this and evil zoning Kim that.  It's as if someone jumped off of a bridge and then you blamed gravity for their death.  If these properties were even somewhat maintained they wouldn't have been demolished. The city isn't the cause it's the effect.  The cause is irresponsibility.

Second we live in a moist tropical climate and a majority of these structures are made from wood.  Even the best maintained and painted wood in this climate can succumb to decay. Raw untreated wood left to the elements doesn't stand a chance and in relatively short time it's going to be beyond any economic repair. So if you have an old structure and you have to replace 70% of it to make it habitable again is it really still a historic house?  Or is it a mostly new house built to the same shape and dimensions as a historic house?

Third SRG houses. Guess what some people love the aesthetic of living in a historic neighborhood but don't want to deal with the hassle of living in an old house.  They are career people focused on their work without a lot of excess time and energy. They need the convenience of a modern low maintenance house. Guess what will gentrify a neighborhood faster than anything - high income professional people.  The SRG houses are a magnet for the right kind of people to help the neighborhood.

Some of these houses have been neglected to the point that there is no viable way to recover them. Getting rid of the worst of them to make way for authentic modern replacements which will draw in a desirable demographic will increase the value of the authentic historic structures and make them more valuable.

Finally I hate those little Dancey Terrace shitboxes at the end of E 10th st.  I hate driving up 10th st and looking at them. I wish they would either be bulldozed or renovated.  Either way I don't care. 

John P.  Your views are certainly shared by some living in Springfield, no doubt. 

There is also a strong vibe of preservation that asks the question WTF.  If you aren't a preservationist at heart, don't move to a historic district.  We all know that Mack hyped up Springfield as "the hippiest hood in town" and that is certainly true.  But it is hip because it is authentic.  Remove the old houses, build faux new ones, and you've lost your groove.

You are lost. You can enjoy history and old homes and the environement it creates and still accept that some need to go. Like I said we have had inpet city leadership. If it was different and the historic areas were supported like they deserve this would not be a problem. But it is not, they are not, and it is. There are probably not that many more homes that need to go and there are probably many that did not need to go. That is reality!

you better smile when you say that, pardner.  make it easiër for me to aim for your teeth.

[BigNugget]

Nicole looks good holding a drill.

Bulldoze Springfield.
Line 'em up and knock 'em down.
Especially those shitbox houses at Dancy Terrace.

Nicole loves Dancy and is being sarcastic, btw.

[sheclown]

Big Nugget.  Are you the crazed stalker? 

[strider]

Hey, all of you anti save the houses guys are really helping us get people on our side, so keep up the good work.

It is sad that some do not get it.  We can post all day long about how we are not trying to give the owners of these houses a free pass, but are simply trying to insure that they actually have a chance.  Frankly, if an owner can't afford to maintain his building, he needs to pass it onto someone who can.  If he doesn't do the repairs himself, he should be given that swift kick in the rear so he does.  But the system must be fair and must actually make it possible for the owner to do those repairs.  In those cases where they can't because of financial reasons, perhaps they need to be helped.  If they simply won't then perhaps the city needs to take the property and give it to someone who will. Tearing down it's historic housing stock is against the law. Yes, the city is breaking the law when it does it for the wrong reasons and it will ultimately pay the price for that.  Unfortunately that means we all will pay that price.

What some of you fail to realize is that it doesn't take much for the MCC to be able to condemn your building.  It could happen to you and yes, you would fix the issues, assuming you could afford to, and the problem would not be that big a deal. AT least you hope it wouldn't, but you can't be sure with Ms Scott and her minions.  And what if you happened to be out of a job at the time?  What if you had medical issues and had to let something slide a bit?  Wouldn't you want a city that cared enough to give you a fair chance to correct the issues?  Because that is all it takes to find yourself in the system and fighting to save your home. 

I hear in some of the recent posts that same old rhetoric that implies you only want the "right kind of people" in your community.  That is sad because some of those who may appear to be the wrong kind of people are simply a bit different.  Some are poorer, some are just troubled.  They mean you and yours no harm.  They simply want the same things you do, perhaps in different colors and sizes, but pretty much the same.

We had a person from Springfield on the HPC who stated on a forum "all the houses worth doing in Springfield have been done".  This was about 2006 or so.  The implication was that the ones not done at that time needed to be torn down.  Many have been.  However, a few have actually been redone in spite of the economic times and one won an award this year at HPC.  An interesting note is that her personal house had been vacant for a decade or more.  It appears she only felt that way because she had her house so why see something ugly now that hers was done.

As long as there is a house, ugly as it may be, standing tall on it's lot, there is still hope.  An empty, over grown lot says nothing, it is forgotten and empty .  One of those forgotten, abandoned SRG foundations says something though.  It says we have given up hope.

I'd rather have ugly hope than no hope at all.