Jville's Brooklyn Renaissance: Planning for the Future

[thelakelander]

You can't get an approximate dollar figure without putting something together to that can be used to solicit estimates.  However, you can gather costs of similar structures recently built that would put you in the general range.  I'll post a few later today.  For now, I'd say it would probably fall in the range of $1 million to $1.5 million, based of what some other no-frills stations have cost in other communities. 

With that said, I'd be willing to put down cash that it would be cheaper than the Jag's new scoreboard, the Laura Street Streetscape, the proposed Greyhound station and the Skyway fare collection system that will eventually be installed.

[GoJax]

Josh did a great job on the video.  Nat Ford, the new JTA head, is well aware of the future challenges with Riverside Avenue traffic and I am sure he will have some mass transit answers.  He is sharp and has 30 years of mass transportation experience including jobs at San Francisco and Atlanta.

[Spence]

Yes. I posted it a couple of pages ago. Here it is:



http://www.northfloridatpo.com/images/uploads/general/LRTP_summbrochure.pdf

Lake,
Thank you for the map!

IF you do not mind, could you overlay the current skyway route on an enlarged inset?

I am trying to visualize how streetcar, skyway, brt, rail, bike and ped improvements are planned to mix and where.

Understanding that the WHEN is tied up in senseless fee reductions and outdated land use and zoning strategies, I would very much appreciate your help with such a visual aide.

[tufsu1]

^ the skyway is shown as the solid orange line on the inset map above....streetcar, brt, and rail would mix in at the transportation center

[Spence]

^ the skyway is shown as the solid orange line on the inset map above....streetcar, brt, and rail would mix in at the transportation center

The solid orange line is planned future streetcar, yes?

I'm asking to see presently existing skyway added to the inset, for a dinner presentation

[Slackiinoff]

sheesh am i the only young person that reads this? everyone is talking about buying groceries, blah blah blah, you take the car for those few trips

where this would be useful would for when you don't want to drive a car because you can get thrown in jail or worse

... when you've been drinking. connect king st (or hell just 5 points for now) to downtown and san marco and actually keep that stupid monorail open past 9pm (let's say 3am on thursday-saturday). People will have a good reason to start using it ... once they get used to it, they will start using it more/bringing friends on it that never rode it before

get people from riverside/san marco into downtown at NIGHT and you'll start to see bars and restaurants actually do well there again. When that happens maybe people might actually want to live in Downtown

[Slackiinoff]

also lets you pitch it to the geezers as a way to reduce drunk driving

[simms3]

sheesh am i the only young person that reads this? everyone is talking about buying groceries, blah blah blah, you take the car for those few trips

where this would be useful would for when you don't want to drive a car because you can get thrown in jail or worse

... when you've been drinking. connect king st (or hell just 5 points for now) to downtown and san marco and actually keep that stupid monorail open past 9pm (let's say 3am on thursday-saturday). People will have a good reason to start using it ... once they get used to it, they will start using it more/bringing friends on it that never rode it before

get people from riverside/san marco into downtown at NIGHT and you'll start to see bars and restaurants actually do well there again. When that happens maybe people might actually want to live in Downtown

Slow day at work so I feel like responding.

It doesn't sound like you are a transit rider.  When I first started using transit, I thought it would be good for avoiding drinking and driving, but really even in the largest cities that's what cabs/your LOCAL walking distance bars are for.  Some of the largest cities don't even have 24 hour service, so what are you going to do when you want to return after midnight?  Often there are a few bus lines running...people in Jax don't even take the bus during rush hour, let alone at 2 in the AM!

People keep talking as if Brooklyn will open up the "urban lifestyle" in Jax, and it probably will to a degree, but things are relative (5 Points to me will always be more walkable/urban).  You aren't living the urban lifestyle if the only time you can figure out when to use transit is at 9 or 10 at night to go to a bar.  An urban lifestyle likely involves complete reliance on your feet and alternative transit to get around, which may require you to carry your groceries or squeeze onto a crowded bus or train with a bike or a full backpack (thereby pissing everyone off and risking "transit rage", which I wouldn't be surprised if that happens more frequently than road rage!).

The groceries was brought up as an anology...there are tons of people now part of family units who left the urban lifestyle up north for the suburban lifestyle in Jax (each does indeed have its plusses and minuses depending on your stage of life/wants and needs).  There are not that many young people in Jax who have left and done the whole independent live in big city thing and then returned while still young/single (there really aren't that many people that even leave Jax period relative to lots of other cities)...so the idea of taking the train and living in a studio and in an urban environment is a romantic thought.  Rents in Riverside for an apartment in an older building are super cheap, and all this new construction will offer relatively cheap studios, too (expensive for Jax)  Of course studio in Jax still means a large 600 SF pad with new appliances and AC in an amenitied building, and taking the train will likely be for commuters who live "on a stop" (TOD like in Charlotte) and work DT, or for attending events DT, but not necessarily for complete reliance since free parking is likely provided in any building they choose to live in (or free street parking in Riverside/San Marco).

And let's face it...hauling 20 pounds of groceries by hand in the heat/cold/rain a few blocks and up a few flights is one of the many "less" romantic drawbacks of the urban lifestyle that I'm sure most in Jax would willingly choose to forgo .  Having to run a few blocks to get a bus driver's attention so that he'll stop and let you on is another...so is waiting in the rain, the heat, the cold, the snow, for your bus or train, etc etc.

Of course imo the urban lifestyle is better for young singles or those not planning on getting married and/or raising a bunch of kids, but it's not perfectly ideal and I hate when people just assume things.  If I lived in Manhattan and it were 10 degrees out and I were rich enough to have a Town Car service, I sure as hell would choose that over doing the whole rush hour bus/train craze in freezing your ass off conditions.  If I were in Jax, parking is free at building, cheap DT, and it's just too easy to find excuses not to take transit if there is any sort of inclement weather or reason ("what if I need to go to GNC after work or a happy hour on the SS?...can't take the train today").

To Lake's point, incremental change is good, but let's not kid ourselves that Brooklyn will be some urban paradise where people will forgo the car altogether and live like folks do in NYC, Boston, SF, Philly, etc.  People in NYC aren't carless because they'd prefer not to have a car; they're carless because maybe they can't afford it (likely), there's no parking and it becomes a hastle (there will be free and abundant parking in Brooklyn developments), transit is actually easier for the aforementioned reasons (oftentimes I can see use of car being easier for residents of Brooklyn developments in Jax), etc etc.  I don't have a car in SF even though my building actually supplies a garage.  Why?  Because my rent for a "sizable" 450 SF 1960s studio with updated appliances is enough to buy me a waterfront house, easily, in Jacksonville (or to rent the PH at Strand) and to park a car would be an extra $450/mo not to mention $4.50/gal gas and insane insurance costs.  I simply can't squeeze it, but I'd truly love to have a car for weekend trips (I technically have access to a car because my building also has 20 zipcar spots).  DT parking would be another $500-600+/mo for me as well, or $20/day for an outlying garage with a finishing walk in or $30/day right in the fidi (if there are spots that become available...my 1.2 million SF office tower has a taxi queue and a Town Car queue, and parking for principals' Ferraris and Range Rovers, but no parking for the thousands of employees like me).

[thelakelander]

I'm not sure why comparisons to mega cities like NYC keep getting thrown into the mix. My main premises has always been that a major amenity/attraction of urban living is being in a multimodal friendly environment where you have realistic and reliable transportation choices at your disposal.  What's the point of paying more money to live in a downtown area if we're intent on making it look and feel like the Southside or Argyle?  If walkability (which includes being multimodal friendly) isn't going to be a redevelopment major goal, we need to stop wasting everyone's time and money in downtown revitalization because you can't have urban vibrancy without it.  This doesn't mean I'm saying people should give up cars.  I'm just saying it is an amenity when you have the option of walking to get a gallon milk or taking a bike to a park as opposed to driving being your only mobility option for all trips being made outside of your front door.

 

[Ocklawaha]

And let's face it...hauling 20 pounds of groceries by hand in the heat/cold/rain a few blocks and up a few flights is one of the many "less" romantic drawbacks of the urban lifestyle that I'm sure most in Jax would willingly choose to forgo . 

Simple Solution 1,243

[simms3]

^^^Are you serious or joking?  I see a very few grannies pushing those around.  Usually grocery store comes right after work, better solution =

[thelakelander]

Lol, I'll go with the SwissGear.

[PeeJayEss]

Best option:

[JeffreyS]

Careful if this keeps escalating it will be a car.