Huge new development proposed on Fishweir Creek and St. John's Ave

[thelakelander]

Dog Walker, did the plan they presented look anything like the drawing from 2005 Ennis found?  I am thinking that everyone thought it was an ordeal getting Mellow Mushroom into the shops of Avondale.  I think we are fixing to see some real drama over this.  Right now river access is basically access to a muddy sandbar.  I have heard there is some research looking into this reality and decisions being made about dredging or allowing it to remain shallow.  I don't think Avondale or Ortega will go for the height, the lost Marina or the parking lot abutting St. Johns.  This is going to be interesting to watch. 

Considering the fireworks over a little pizza restaurant I can see this possibly becoming a heated issue in upcoming months as various sides start marking their positions.  It will be interesting to see what the project evolves into.

I think we should interject ourselves right here to try and facilitate good public access to the river along this new development.

This does sound like a great opportunity to include better public access to the river.

[Cheshire Cat]

On another note, this development could be a great thing for Ale Pie House right across the street as well as the little flower shop on the corner. 

[Charles Hunter]

More importantly - does this mean The Loop will be closing?  I can't support this proposal, then!

We now we return you to serious discussion ... 

[thelakelander]

Btw, this is Chicago's Lakeview.  This neighborhood has a density of 30,000 residents per square mile and most buildings are less than four stories.  They just happen to be pretty packed in with little to no off-street parking:









As this evolves, how this development is physically laid out will be just as important in determining scale as the actual number of residential units.

[Jumpinjack]

Fishweir Creek is getting ready for a major restoration. The COE is finalizing a environmental assessment which will include marsh restoration, dredging of channel, manatee protections, sewage outfalls, etc. The cost to the COJ and the COE is upward of $5 million. The developer's attorney did not mention the creek amenities until asked. So far they are planning a waterfront promenade (probably as per the 2005-6 plans) and clean up of the public access launch for kayaks. He said that they would work with the COE. Other plans unknown.

[Jumpinjack]

Charles, I suspect all the residents of the current Commander Apts many elderly and a some HUD assisted residents will be evicted when the building is removed.  Unfortunately among them will be my friends who will have difficulty relocating.
Businesses will be removed from the existing buildings in order for demolition and rebuilding. Loop needs to find a new home.

[Dog Walker]

Every time specifics were asked of the lawyer representing the developer, he danced around and wouldn't give specifics.  He said that the deadline for the re-zoning request (only once a quarter) and the market research and the design process made them put in the re-zoning request before all of the details were in place.

REALLY?  Once a quarter deadlines force an action on a project that is going to take a couple of years?  This is obviously a "toe-in-the-water" first step to gauge the amount of reaction that will happen.  I also think that they hoped to slide the re-zoning through and have high ground in the negotiations before anyone noticed.  Good lawyer earning his money.  Nice try!

I think, along with everyone else but the developer in the room, that a lot more specific information should be required about this project before any other step is taken.

Done right it could be an asset to the neighborhood and the City.  Done wrong, a disaster!  The devil is in the details!

The marina also might not really be a dead idea.  Not on the plans, but not ruled out.  That raises the level of complication and concern.

[Cheshire Cat]

More importantly - does this mean The Loop will be closing?  I can't support this proposal, then!

We now we return you to serious discussion ... 

I hope they would be smart enough to offer them a decent option in the retail space they are creating.    I would be angry to lose my Loop Portabella grilled mushroom sammich!  See Charles, you and I have our priorities straight I do believe.  lol

[thelakelander]

Is it known if the entire site will be demolished and redeveloped in one phase?

[ben says]

On another note, this development could be a great thing for Ale Pie House right across the street as well as the little flower shop on the corner.

If Ale makes it that long..!

[Cheshire Cat]

On another note, this development could be a great thing for Ale Pie House right across the street as well as the little flower shop on the corner.

If Ale makes it that long..!

Something make you think it won't?  Recent reports by other posters say the food is good and everyone likes the delivery option. 

[thelakelander]

From the FTU:

Project would include a riverwalk and kayak launch that would be fully accessible to the public.  Apartments would wrap an interior parking garage and retail would be on ground floor of apartment buildings.

Plans are underway for a major new development on St. Johns Avenue, and residents of the area expressed their concern about it Monday, although few specific are available.

The application to the city calls for 350 apartments and 42,000 square feet of retail space -- but Mike Balanky, the developer behind plans to tear down the Commander Apartments and St. Johns Village on Fishweir Creek and build something new, said those are what the city allows, not what will end up on the site.

“Even if we could do that,” he said, “we wouldn’t.”

Full article: http://jacksonville.com/business/real-estate/2013-04-29/story/st-johns-avenue-development-raises-concerns-among-neighbors

[Trixie]

Thanks for posting the Times Union article, hot off the presses.

The proposed land use amendment to change the zoning on the shopping center parcel from "CGC" ("community/general commercial") to "HDR" ("high density residential") is significant in that it allows the developer to increase the number of residential units for the property.  Under HDR zoning, you can request up to 60 units per acre.  The shopping center parcel consists of approximately 3.3 acres, so that adds up to an additional possible 198 residential units when counted at 60 units per acre.

As Dog Walker said, at the Preview Workshop today, the developer's lawyer said the new PUD (the "companion zoning application" that goes with the proposed land use amendment) will request a total of 350 units for the site, which consists of the Commander Apartments site (currently zoned "HDR" and 2.56 acres) and the shopping center site (currently zoned "CGC" and 3.3 acres). 

If the applicant stays on track with his proposed land use amendment application as filed, there are several important upcoming dates, as follows:

May 28, 2013 - Introduce the applicant's Bill to City Council (the applicant's Bill will be read into the record)

June 11, 2013 - First City Council Public Hearing on the matters underlying the Bill

June 13, 2013 - Planning Commission's LPA Public Hearing

June 18, 2013 - Council Committee's Public Hearing

June 25, 2013 - Second City Council Public Hearing on the matters underlying the Bill

I think the "companion zoning application" with the new PUD will be subject to the same dates as those listed above, if the new PUD becomes a completed application to the City Planning Department's satisfaction in short order. 

[thelakelander]

Just trying to understand what's being requested.

If it goes from CGC to HDR, what impact does that have on the type and amount of commercial use?  Also, which use has a more significant impact on traffic?  More retail and less residential units or more residential and less retail?

[simms3]

Thanks Dogwalker, agree with all of your points.  Sometimes a development is mistakenly labeled a size, including the garage, which can lead to misconceptions and exaggerated concerns.  I do worry about any plan that emphasizes Fishweir Creek over St. Johns Ave as the "front" because while not currently a very walkable thoroughfare, I do think St. Johns can be, and to "close off" the development in any way to the street (whether "street level" retail is included or not...we all know it's never that desirable of retail under most garages of this nature) will not do any of the other struggling businesses on the other side of the street any favors.

Fishweir Creek as it is now is a dirty, dried up creek with old barnacle covered pilings sticking out and trash strewn about.  St. Johns Ave to me is prettier, and could eventually provide some semblance of people watching if developed appropriately.

300-400 units and 42,000 SF retail is not too much of a traffic concern.  Would be interesting to see what kind of renter they will be targeting - have to assume affordable housing will not be a part of the plan as that would generate the most backlash and it's not like the city actually gives a damn about it.  Lots of Ortega/Avondale residents have lost their big fancy homes lately, and are renting smaller ranch style homes.  I could see this serving new residents in the market for a new area home, residents foreclose on nearby, recently divorced folks with a kid or two, etc etc.

The other takeaway is that given the amount of dialogue on this blog, it sounds like no pre-emptive PR was considered by the developer.  Good PR is a developer's best friend...as more local folks get in the game, the sooner they learn that the better!