Micro-lofts Fill Demand for Downtown Living

[simms3]

^^^I've had a stressful day...just took it out on an innocent, and Providence, RI.  I do think it's an example of the overall disconnect in Jax, though, that someone would even pose the question for that market.  Again, where is the common sense?

1) What is the reasoning for micro apartments? Many, land pricing and market fundamental based
2) Are they even new? No
3) What markets are they in? Basically just NYC and central Boston
4) Do any of the above indicate a reasoning to conclude that micro is something that should be looked at for Jax? No

In terms of development strategies, urban planning, what works and what doesn't, most of the best and brightest strategies evolved from those learned and practiced for sometimes hundreds of years in NYC and older NE cities/European/Asian cities have come to be in Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville, Dallas, Austin, etc.  They have learned to choose which ideas and concepts to tackle and formulate to their individual sunbelt autocentric sprawly markets.  Jax should at this point just try to copy whatever these cities are doing.  LoL.  Just copy.  What is working for and happening in Manhattan is not easily translatable to Jax, but more easily translatable to say Atlanta, which in turn is more translatable to Jax.

Common sense.

And Providence - if Jax is the most tax averse city and big government averse city and public program averse city in the country and Providence is just about the opposite, why on earth would anyone in Jax look to learn from Providence when every takeaway is basically how the government can spend money and create something?  Jax needs to learn how to deal with 100% market based fundamentals, metrics, and strategies because it ain't going to transform into a city that experiments with taxpayer money, especially on micro apartments downtown!

[strider]

Its ironic that the pressure for space has basically created a return to a style of Rooming House, A single building with boarders occupying basically a single room for maximum rental revenue.  Its less efficient I think, the only sidereal benefit is a higher level of privacy and far more opportunities for indoor plumbing, but basically its the same thing.

Actually, the idea of a real rooming house or boarding house has never really died.  It did evolve though.  The current bed and breakfasts, for example, are the new higher end equavalent.  I agree that if you are going to be living is such a small space, you may as well get the benifits of a rooming or boarding house.

Actually I think that there could be a market in the near future for a modern version of a Boarding house.  Nice sized rooms, very small kitchenettes (for microwaving stuff), small baths ( the old rooming houses had shared bathrooms - the current crop of us doesn't like that much anymore though) and a larger common area complete with a hostess that also cooks the meals, makes sure you clean your room and generally plays Mom.  Food would be many, many steps above McDonalds. The other guests would often become your friends and meeting in the living room for a game or special movie would be something looked forward to.  Probably all for about $200.00 to $250.00 a week, maybe less.  Too bad it would be illegal all over Jacksonville. (Zoning)

[simms3]

^^^Sounds like a hostel.  If you're city has tons of hostels, there might be demand for micro unit rentals, but not necessarily.  Seems to be a higher mutual relation, but again DC, SF, Chicago, and Philly have tons of hostels, but not much demand for cramped permanent living conditions.

[fsquid]

wouldn't be enough demand here for those until downtown is vibrant for at least 16 hours a day.

[vicupstate]

I visited Providence in the late '90's and it had tons of buzz about turning around it's DT back then.  It looked successful and vibrant to me, with Department stores and anything else you would expect to see in a bustling DT.  Has it fallen on hard times since?

As for the government subsidies, the project listed only seems to be getting a 12 year freeze on the property tax on the improvements.  That is not excessive compared to some deals Jax has made (11 E., Carling, etc.)

[thelakelander]

Downtown Providence appeared to be decent in 2008. However, I don't know much about the city's economic structure or how most of the redevelopment was funded. Here are a few pics from my only visit to Providence, which was brief (probably less than 3 hours).

[tufsu1]

I heard a story on NPR teh other day about how the whole state of Rhode Island is struggling....they have been outsourcing their young talent to Connecticut and Massachusetts for too long.

Seems to me that one pro/con for Providence is its proximity to Boston....that means folks who want an urban lifestyle but can't afford Bostoncan choose Providence and commute (much like Baltimore and Washington)....the down side is those folks split their time and money between the two states

[urbaknight]

I still feel there might be a market but it would have to be really cheap to attract folks and I am not sure you can work those numbers. Just look at all the artists filling up Cork. If they had a cheap place stay close by it might work. That being said we need more affordable downtown apartments and less "Luxury".

I completely agree, unfortunately, those who are in control are only trying to redevelop Downtown for "their kind of people", which are the rich GOB country bumpkins who don't even want to set foot in an urban area, much less live in one.

Affordable is a blasphemous word for them. 

One of the major characteristics for a big city is in the diversity of its people, the very people that JAX leaders are trying to exclude.

It would be cheaper for the developers if they cut out all of the frills, like the Manhattan style walk-ups. Simply omit the granite counter tops, the dishwashers, washers and driers can be located on the first floor and closed off to non tenants. And if the city made it "ok to be a pedestrian", there would be no need to provide parking either.

But as it stands today, none of this is possible. That's why people from the Northeast and West Coast that live here now, and have not abandoned their customs, should run for council. But act like a GOB fool during the campaign in order to get elected.

[John P]

Isnt there a plan for the Ambassador hotel to be developed into affordable housing?

[vicupstate]

I still feel there might be a market but it would have to be really cheap to attract folks and I am not sure you can work those numbers. Just look at all the artists filling up Cork. If they had a cheap place stay close by it might work. That being said we need more affordable downtown apartments and less "Luxury".

I completely agree, unfortunately, those who are in control are only trying to redevelop Downtown for "their kind of people", which are the rich GOB country bumpkins who don't even want to set foot in an urban area, much less live in one.

Affordable is a blasphemous word for them. 

One of the major characteristics for a big city is in the diversity of its people, the very people that JAX leaders are trying to exclude.

It would be cheaper for the developers if they cut out all of the frills, like the Manhattan style walk-ups. Simply omit the granite counter tops, the dishwashers, washers and driers can be located on the first floor and closed off to non tenants. And if the city made it "ok to be a pedestrian", there would be no need to provide parking either.

But as it stands today, none of this is possible. That's why people from the Northeast and West Coast that live here now, and have not abandoned their customs, should run for council. But act like a GOB fool during the campaign in order to get elected.

It isn't simply greed alone.  A project has to make economic sense (ie a profit).  So much of the old buildings that could have been rehabbed into housing are gone.  Building new from the ground up is expensive, especially if the dirt is expensive too. 

[urbaknight]

Isnt there a plan for the Ambassador hotel to be developed into affordable housing?

That's what they say, but come on, it would be too perfect too urban. My prediction is unfortunate but nonetheless, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

[urbaknight]

Don't get me wrong, I really want the hotel rebuilt; And I would be all too happy to eat my words. I'm very hungry and some negative words seem very appetizing right about now.

[thelakelander]

We've blasted our building stock that would have been ideal for affordable housing into smithereens.  To be honest, if you want affordable, it's not going to happen in the core of the Northbank or Southbank without major public incentives.  Your best bet is on the peripheral or in adjacent neighborhoods, which is another reason why improving mass transit connectivity between downtown and adjacent neighborhoods should be a high priority of downtown revitalization efforts.

[Tacachale]

There are plenty of places that could work for something like this. Though this is one of those ideas that should be thought of in terms of how the concept would work in Jacksonville's environment specifically. "Micro" by New York standards wouldn't work here, but a small affordable apartment for our context would be attractive to many people. If you could get, say, a 400-500 square foot 1 bedroom for $5-600 in the middle of downtown, I know of many people who'd take up that offer. As for incentives, well, any housing downtown will require incentives, that's not a reason not to do it.

[thelakelander]

I believe the two recent downtown housing projects that didn't require incentives were Metropolitan Lofts and City Place. Both were buildings that were easily adaptable and on the Northbank's peripheral. Unfortunately, outside of the old City Hall/Courthouse Annex (which several want to demolish) we don't have many easily adaptable structures remaining.

Also, I'm not saying incentives aren't a reason to not do affordable housing in downtown.  I'm just stating the fact that it's not market rate given the landscape we've created that we're now forced to play with. However, I'm the guy who believes we should consider paying people to live in and near downtown.  Incentives aren't a killer for me.  I think they are needed across the board.