Micro-lofts Fill Demand for Downtown Living

[Koula]

I still feel there might be a market but it would have to be really cheap to attract folks and I am not sure you can work those numbers. Just look at all the artists filling up Cork. If they had a cheap place stay close by it might work. That being said we need more affordable downtown apartments and less "Luxury".

I agree with the "more affordable and less luxury" sentiment. While a micro-loft might be a hard sell in our city of sprawl, we have some demonstrated needs that could be filled. For example, Jacksonville has very few live/work rental spaces. The Lofts in San Marco are the only example that comes to mind. As someone who has a studio at CoRK, I can think of more than a few people who would pay to live in a less refined/more affordable version of this kind of mixed use living space if it was available.

[peestandingup]

I still feel there might be a market but it would have to be really cheap to attract folks and I am not sure you can work those numbers. Just look at all the artists filling up Cork. If they had a cheap place stay close by it might work. That being said we need more affordable downtown apartments and less "Luxury".

I completely agree, unfortunately, those who are in control are only trying to redevelop Downtown for "their kind of people", which are the rich GOB country bumpkins who don't even want to set foot in an urban area, much less live in one.

Affordable is a blasphemous word for them. 

One of the major characteristics for a big city is in the diversity of its people, the very people that JAX leaders are trying to exclude.

It would be cheaper for the developers if they cut out all of the frills, like the Manhattan style walk-ups. Simply omit the granite counter tops, the dishwashers, washers and driers can be located on the first floor and closed off to non tenants. And if the city made it "ok to be a pedestrian", there would be no need to provide parking either.

But as it stands today, none of this is possible. That's why people from the Northeast and West Coast that live here now, and have not abandoned their customs, should run for council. But act like a GOB fool during the campaign in order to get elected.

It isn't simply greed alone.  A project has to make economic sense (ie a profit).  So much of the old buildings that could have been rehabbed into housing are gone.  Building new from the ground up is expensive, especially if the dirt is expensive too.

It is greed because thats what led to affordable housing being destroyed in the first place. Thats the root of why it doesn't make "economic sense" anymore. If they would have left what we had alone, taken care of it, then we'd have it. And plenty of it. You could make the same argument why making pedestrian friendly streets & bike networks doesn't make "economic sense" these days. On its face, you'd be correct in some ways. But you have to ask WHY & look deeper into why it wouldn't. Same reason. Basically greed, trying to squeeze people every which way they know how & force them into a certain way of living. The fact that we've came so far in the other direction with these things is in fact why it doesn't make economic sense now & why everyone has to give up half their paycheck, take out loans (on homes & eduction), etc to just live some kind of decent existence. Its like this for a reason. Same with energy, food & transportation. Don't think for a minute we couldn't be a hell of a lot more energy independent if we really wanted to (check Germany) & have more transportation options (destruction of the streetcars, sprawl promotion & building everything around the automobile).

As far as micro living in Jax, I like the idea & if I were single I'd do it in a second. I lived in a 600SF apartment for 3 years & was just fine. And an even smaller one in DC (with a wife & 2 dogs) & was just fine too. But mostly because I was never home besides for a few times a day coming/going & to sleep. Thats because I was always out on the streets, going to shops, taking the Metro to work, having about a million different places I could explore by just walking out my door on foot/bike. That obviously doesn't exist in Jax & prob why you won't be seeing this any time soon (and for the reasons I mentioned in my rant above).

[twojacks]

Same small apartment living experience here. Sometimes when I consider all that I'm obligated to maintain now, I just think about the simplicity of those living situations and miss them. Pee hit on a great seed for why micro-apartments should be considered for downtown.

People in larger homes nest or borrow.  Nesting today allows you to get everything right at home.  From cable tv, wii, netflix, kindles, computers, home gyms, gourmet kitchens there is really not much of a reason to leave the house or apartment after work except to restock the fridge.  But, those bigger houses and apartments allow for something important to this discussion. They allow for a significant other.  Once that happens, you don't even need to seek outside companionship.   

Those small apartments on the other hand are not conducive to packing it full of distractions or even a partner.  Most anyone interested in such a living situation would most likely be single.  And that's good because single's mingle.  A Florida Life building full of young, bored residents would naturally begin foraging to find where they could get their needs met. Undoubtedly, the bars and restaurants on Bay would benefit as might the shops at the Landing.  How many 500-600 sf apartments might fit in one of the trios? 200? 300?  not quite the 10K person downtown threshold by itself, but not a bad bite at the goal either. 

[thelakelander]

The taller trio buildings are pretty narrow.  The Bisbee is roughly 94' deep by 45' wide and the Florida Life is 85' deep by 28' wide.  Assuming you wanted micro units on the upper floors in the Florida Life, you'd only get 40 or so at 500 square feet.  The Bisbee is larger in width, so take out circulation space and you'd be lucky to get 60 units between 400 to 500 square feet. Combined, you're only looking at 100 units assuming you also want street level retail or common amenities for residents.

[simms3]

Let's clear the air about micro apartments because I don't think most of you understand how small a *micro* apartment really is.  Below is what I live in (slightly reconfigured but should be same size).



This is by no means a micro apartment.  This is a *very* good size studio in most cities and a really efficient floorplan (plus I have a balcony, which outside of the Sunbelt is actually rare, even for luxury condos which are all glassed in...I store my bike on my balcony rather than inside or in the basement, a very nice perk).  I see myself living here for a while, especially because it's rent controlled and the average one bedroom in my area is now $3495.


Below is a micro apartment:

Patrick Kennedy in the living area of his SmartSpace apartment, the sofa turns into a bed. Developer Patrick Kennedy has built a prototype micro-apartment in a Berkeley storage warehouse.

Photo: Brant Ward, The Chronicle

Read more: SF Supervisors Back Micro Apartments

The article mentions that estimated rents would be $1200-$1500 for apartments that are 160-220 ft in size.  The concern is that this could push rents for larger units even higher based on a PSF rent, the metric investors/landlords use for determining market.  SF has capped the number of micro apartments to be built in the city for the time being at 375 in new construction and will wait to see the effect of them before allowing more.  The smallest allowable apartment in CA is 160 ft.


Now, does anyone still see this happening or fulfilling some demand in Jacksonville?  When I say that truly the only city that needs, has and wants micro apartments is NYC, I am not kidding.

[thelakelander]

Now, does anyone still see this happening or fulfilling some demand in Jacksonville?

Not at a large noticeable scale.  People complain about City Place's units being too small. Their smallest studios are 450sf.



Studios at City Place can be leased for $550/month.  1 Bedrooms are available from $650.

[simms3]

Currently studio options are as follows:

The Strand: 651 SF ($1175-$1300)
11 East: 585-640 SF ($755-$920)
The Carling: 470 SF  ($715-$880)
Metropolitan Lofts: 885 SF ($995)
CityPlace Apartments: 450 SF ($550)

I couldn't find any other core neighborhood studios, but I really really like those Metropolitan Lofts!  Surely Jax has potential for more stuff like that (these are *large* lofts, not micro apt comps).  CityPlace Apts is definitely not ideal to me.  To me the best test for studios is the Carling.  It's the only building with market rates for studios that are normal studio size (400-500 ft).  I wonder if there is a waiting list.

Floorplan:


My experience has been that the starving artist still wants space.  You won't find starving artists in Manhattan, the inner part of SF, Boston, DC, etc.  They want cool space for cheap.  I could picture them in Metropolitan Lofts since it's so cheap, offers expansive cool space with high ceilings and views.  Artists are already priced out of Brooklyn and certainly Billyburg, so the extent of Manhattan level prices is becoming more far reaching than ever.  In SF, the Tenderloin is one of the worst areas, is a real urban slum/skid row, but studios/small 1BRs still go for $1500-$2000 and you have to step over sleeping heroin addicts on your way down the stairs from your apt.  You would think artists would be there for its relative cheapness...but it doesn't offer space and it's still not cheap enough.

You're micro apartments are for single 20-30 year olds who live in such an expensive city that even with their big city salary cannot afford a decent studio.  These are entry level analysts, bankers, marketing/PR associates, young associates at "smidgling" law firms only making $100K, which is not enough to live well even for singles in Manhattan, etc.  I don't think Jax is at that level or has that dilemna.