$400,000.00 for a Downtown park the size of a basketball court

[Tacachale]

Would this cover both the improvements to the area in front of the building, or just the parking lot on Bay? If it's both I can easily see it costing that much. It would be nicer if they removed that ramp, but one thing at a time.

[thelakelander]

It appears to cover both, which is why the costs don't look so out of line to me.

[PeeJayEss]

The $480,000 would be spent on landscaping, sidewalks, historic lighting, parking area paving and other improvements near the building on Independence Drive.

The funding includes $280,000 the state had planned to spend on converting the Ocean Street East ramp to a pedestrian connection from Independent Drive to Bay Street. FDOT appropriated another $200,000 directly for the work.

So none of the construction money would come from the city, Jax would just have to pay for design which, according to the drawings posted by Ennis, is already done? Whether it is a waste of money or not, its not our money. 

Beyond that, what is the dilio with the Ocean Street East ramp ped connection? Would they have added ped facilities to the left northbound ramp? Then I guess there would be a crosswalk across the right lane, same as the southbound side? Why didn't this happen (because of the other ped connection added between Independent and Bay?)?

Last, the front of the Chamber property isn't bad (grass with trees and shrubs). It seems like the most expensive part of the project is the front with the flagpoles and water features added, which are replacing something that already looks nice (and would be welcoming if you just removed the retaining wall and gently sloped the yard). The east side parking lot changes would be great, in my opinion, and probably pretty reasonably-priced. The real problem with the property is the god-awful ugly building, however. At least update the sign (and put a HUGE mural on that big, ugly, windowless side of the building). Actually, the mural should be done anyway, surely that is a low cost change, and consistent with the mission of the Chamber.

[Captain Zissou]

I just don't see this getting much use.  There is nothing to draw the Pedestrian that way.  If Mad Men Marketing goes to pick up lunch from the Landing, then they could stop there on the way back, but that's about it.  Parks should enhance the pedestrian experience and support surrounding businesses.  If there are no pedestrians and there are no businesses to augment, then I don't see the point of spending so much for a park with no purpose.

All that said, if they aren't going to put any structure at the street to add vibrancy to Water Street, they might as well make the thing look decent.

[Tacachale]

It appears to cover both, which is why the costs don't look so out of line to me.

Yeah, if that's the case, I don't see the problem, nor where Channel 4 get the idea that this is the size of a "basketball court".

I'd like to know the deal with the pedestrian connection though, and whether the Chamber will be coming to the city for the design funding or paying it themselves.

[BridgeTroll]

I just don't see this getting much use.  There is nothing to draw the Pedestrian that way.  If Mad Men Marketing goes to pick up lunch from the Landing, then they could stop there on the way back, but that's about it.  Parks should enhance the pedestrian experience and support surrounding businesses.  If there are no pedestrians and there are no businesses to augment, then I don't see the point of spending so much for a park with no purpose.

All that said, if they aren't going to put any structure at the street to add vibrancy to Water Street, they might as well make the thing look decent.

I have used that "park" a few times... as a short cut between Bay street bars and the Landing...

[Cheshire Cat]

I think the first surprise for me was that the land in front of the chamber is and apparently has been a city park.  lol  Who knew really?  The second surprise was that given the fact that it was supposedly a park, why would a plan that is purely concrete and metal poles be considered an upgrade to the already horrible park?  By that I mean most people consider a park something with green space, trees benches, planting etc.

Upon closer examination there is currently a 3 million improvement going on the the Chamber building (a city structure) but funded by private money.  Don't know the breakdown on that.  The outdoor space is a natural extension to completing that restoration I suppose.  The land belongs to the city and the current deal as I understand it is that once the improvements are done, the chamber will maintain the "park".

The funding while not coming in it's entirety through city tax funds is still tax dollars paid by everyone in Florida.  The question is in the mind of some whether or not using 400k on this particular project is the best use for it.  Personally, I am not opposed to seeing the improvements, but do not care for the design one bit. All hard angles.  It seems to me we are just putting more in the way of uninspired concrete surface into the downtown.  Environmentally, the addition of more hard surface creates more heat and less ambiance.  Where are the plantings?  Of course the answer is likely that the Chamber wants as little expense in the way of upkeep as possible.  So a park, no, in my view.  The term park just made it qualify for the tax based funding from the state. 

I would love to see a small area covered by trees or a very cool design element with some bench seating and some colorful plantings included for ambiance and color along with a water feature which not only would bring elemental balance but make the space a bit softer for visitors actually experiencing it.

[thelakelander]

It seems that the space has many of the features you mention.  It's just spread across the entire site with parking integrated.

[Cheshire Cat]

I see what you are saying Ennis, but in my opinion the space lacks color,character and anything in the way of style. This is something you would see in "any town" U.S.A.  Why do we always aim for "any town?" lol It really says little that is impressive or creative about Jacksonville or our people.  It's just blah in my view.  Some colorful blooming plants would help and a creative covered seating space outside the entrance would give more character.  It also seems a likely location for a fantastic piece of outside art.  It is uninspired, just like that hulk of a courthouse we have.

Shoot, many on this site could come up with something much better. 

[tufsu1]

I just don't see this getting much use.  There is nothing to draw the Pedestrian that way.

well except that this is on the main route between the Bay Street nightlife area and the Landing

and the Ocean Street east ramp was redone a few years ago...it is now a pedestrian space with enhanced planting and lighting

[tufsu1]

Shoot, many on this site could come up with something much better. 

folks who are on this site (Content Design Group) developed the concept

[tufsu1]

I'm sure the client (Chamber) had some say in the park design/amenities.

[Cheshire Cat]

Shoot, many on this site could come up with something much better. 

folks who are on this site developed the concept

lol.  and they are very nice guys---who I know for a fact appreciate public comment and response----  but they still could have come up with something better, technically there is always room for improvement.

For example, designing the park for active programming --like an outdoor workout and stretching area with covered spaces for runners and bikers in the rain, or a basketball court, or a climbing wall or a public croquet green, or a rollerblading circle with seats around it....

This is the direction that most of the big cities are going with small public spaces,  it makes New York a wonderful wonderful place to live in fact.

Exactly!  This space could be made much more attractive and needs to be softened.  Come on "Content Design Group", you can do much better than this uninspired "anywhere" USA design.  A space designed with a use a Stephen suggested makes much more sense and would create activity which translates to life in the core.  Less angles, more creativity and natural color via plantings please. 

I am positive the Chamber had plenty of input on this as well and to them I say, you need to do better in presenting Jacksonville in a welcoming creative light.  A sizable piece of outside art would be a great addition.  Interactive art even better.  Look, unless the public speaks up and says "run of the mill design" isn't enough, we will continue to get run of the mill design.  I in no way mean to disrespect what I am sure are the fine folk of CDG.  I only challenge them to do better.  I know you can.

[thelakelander]

I have no problems with the design. It's essentially the greening of an asphalt parking lot. The major question I can see is should public dollars be used?  Hemming is the public space I'm really worried about.

[Cheshire Cat]

I respect that Ennis, I just don't agree.  We need more than the greening of an asphalt parking lot as an introduction to downtown.