Repeat Offender Arrested in shooting of Five Men on the Westside

[Gators312]

While we were talking about being sensitive to the rights of the right people to be able to kill five people per second, three more were shot to death in Michigan:

We can always count on you to come with the hyperbole.   

I don't think anyone on this board, is wanting to be sensitive Stephen.

I think it's those who want a reasonable discussion and concern for unintended consequences while trying to address the issue.

"The White House says curbing gun violence is a complex problem that will require a "comprehensive solution" including addressing gun control measures.
Still, spokesman Jay Carney says gun control is not the only solution to stopping shootings like the horrific attack at a Connecticut elementary school Friday. He says no single piece of legislation or single action will fully address the problem."

[If_I_Loved_you]

Why does anyone need to shoot five people in one second?

Is that just your God given Right?

The right to kill your neighbors in masses before they can react?

Stephen, you've been parroting this line since you started posting about the story.  A handgun can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, they aren't automatic.  Five rounds a second means you are pulling the trigger 5 times in a second which is very fast for any normal person.  If you are pulling the trigger that fast you are not changing targets, you are firing at a single target, because you simply cannot pull the trigger that fast and aim at 5 different targets in one second.  I doubt you'd find many people who could even aim and hit two different targets in a second.

Well please help me out, carpenter.

How many of your neighbors should you be able to kill per minute, and is that your God given Right?

None but if a Neighbor is trying to kill you it is your God Given Right!

[carpnter]

Why does anyone need to shoot five people in one second?

Is that just your God given Right?

The right to kill your neighbors in masses before they can react?

Stephen, you've been parroting this line since you started posting about the story.  A handgun can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, they aren't automatic.  Five rounds a second means you are pulling the trigger 5 times in a second which is very fast for any normal person.  If you are pulling the trigger that fast you are not changing targets, you are firing at a single target, because you simply cannot pull the trigger that fast and aim at 5 different targets in one second.  I doubt you'd find many people who could even aim and hit two different targets in a second.

Well please help me out, carpenter.

How many of your neighbors should you be able to kill per minute, and is that your God given Right?

If someone is trying to kill me then I should be allowed to use whatever means necessary to remove that threat, that is my God Given Right.   I am still responsible for ensuring that others around are not harmed by my actions in removing that threat.   

Since we are engaging in hyperbole and you appear to be incapable of anything other than an emotional argument at this time.   I should be able to kill as many of my neighbors per minute as is necessary to remove and real threat they pose to my life and those of my family.  If that requires me to be able to kill 50 neighbors per minute because they are attacking me or my family and are a threat to our lives, then that is how many I should be allowed to kill. 

Once you get over this ridiculous 5 shots per second statement that you are hanging on to, perhaps we can have a reasonable discussion. 

[Tacachale]

Count me in the camp that supports gun rights but sees no reason for the pushers to be able to peddle military rifles to the public. Though I absolutely agree that prohibiting such weapons won't end the problem of gun crime. However, the excuse that the problem will be complicated to solve is pretty flimsy justification for maintaining the status quo.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Why does anyone need to shoot five people in one second?

Is that just your God given Right?

The right to kill your neighbors in masses before they can react?

Stephen, you've been parroting this line since you started posting about the story.  A handgun can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, they aren't automatic.  Five rounds a second means you are pulling the trigger 5 times in a second which is very fast for any normal person.  If you are pulling the trigger that fast you are not changing targets, you are firing at a single target, because you simply cannot pull the trigger that fast and aim at 5 different targets in one second.  I doubt you'd find many people who could even aim and hit two different targets in a second.

Well please help me out, carpenter.

How many of your neighbors should you be able to kill per minute, and is that your God given Right?

None but if a Neighbor is trying to kill you it is your God Given Right!

You know, like Jesus did.

Stephen if a neighbor was coming after you with a gun would you go "Mahatma Gandhi" on him or fight back?

[Cheshire Cat]

The NRA’s A-rated West Virginia Senator, Joe Manchin, calls for a ban on assault weapons.

“Seeing the massacre of so many innocent children has changed everything...Everything has to be on the table.”

Watch: http://on.msnbc.com/VLwNDf

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=360629974033261&set=a.279728135456779.59808.273864989376427&type=1&theater

[If_I_Loved_you]

Why does anyone need to shoot five people in one second?

Is that just your God given Right?

The right to kill your neighbors in masses before they can react?

Stephen, you've been parroting this line since you started posting about the story.  A handgun can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, they aren't automatic.  Five rounds a second means you are pulling the trigger 5 times in a second which is very fast for any normal person.  If you are pulling the trigger that fast you are not changing targets, you are firing at a single target, because you simply cannot pull the trigger that fast and aim at 5 different targets in one second.  I doubt you'd find many people who could even aim and hit two different targets in a second.

Well please help me out, carpenter.

How many of your neighbors should you be able to kill per minute, and is that your God given Right?

None but if a Neighbor is trying to kill you it is your God Given Right!

You know, like Jesus did.

Stephen if a neighbor was coming after you with a gun would you go "Mahatma Gandhi" on him or fight back?

Ive had a number of guns pointed at me by people willing to pull the trigger, didnt shoot one of them.

But is the question limited only to people coming at me with a gun?

And isnt that a bit ironic, considering the subject?

Im just wondering how many people per minute need to be killed by a single weapon if we are going to preserve um, you know....Freedom.  Life and Liberty. and uh, you know...the Constitutional right to rapidly kill as many people as we feel are necessary.

"Ive had a number of guns pointed at me by people willing to pull the trigger" WOW you must piss off a lot of people? Look I'm ready for the assault weapons and large magazine clips to be banned ASAP! But you will never get people or America to ban all weapons and we shouldn't even try.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Is there some proposal to do this, IILY?  Or are you just saying something for the lack of having anything to say?

I bet you also would convince anyone to do away with all vegetables either.

Or junk food.

or chain link fences.

or any number of things.

"Is there some proposal to do this, IILY?  Or are you just saying something for the lack of having anything to say?" Stephen your Nuts!

[If_I_Loved_you]

well you mentioned a proposal to take all guns away from all Americans, I was wondering if this was a real thing or just something you made up?

Jesus Christ Stephen you love picking fights what don't you understand? I said I would like the assault weapons and large magazine clips to be banned ASAP! BUT trying to get any other Guns removed from honest Americans is just NUTS!

[NotNow]

I would be interested in what the definition of "assault weapon" is.  An AR-15 or any civilian variant is a semi-automatic medium powered rifle.  The "standard" magazine is 30 rounds.  Semi-automatic simply means that the weapon will fire once every time the trigger is pulled until the magazine is empty.  Is it the intent of those calling for an "assault weapons" ban to ban all semi-automatic weapons?  The Clinton ban limited itself to certain "listed" models.  Based largely on "features" such as flash suppressors, pistol grips, and other "military-like" features.

An actual "assault rifle" fires fully automatically, or fires continuously when the trigger is held down.  These are already heavily regulated and are not very common. 

I would appreciate clarification of what is proposed by the posters.  I have not been able to find the text of the Fienstein proposal.

(For the record, I am opposed to any such ban.  I am a member of the NRA.  I believe in the Second Amendment and the purpose for which it was written.  I am also of the belief that the right to self defense is God given, and is not to be abridged by men.)   Just so you guys have someone to yell at...  .

[BridgeTroll]

The definition of "assault rifle varies wildly... with some of the definitions absurd.  That said... I am not... nor have ever been... a member of the NRA.  I have however owned a weapon or two my entire life... most have been semi automatic in one version or another.

I do agree that the right to keep and bear arms is a critical and fundamental right delineated in our Bill of Rights along with nine other precious rights.  Most if not all of those critical and fundamental rights come with certain limitations. 

We are all aware of various limitations to the first amendment for example.

That said... the soon to be introduced legislation to limit certain weapons or even clips will do nothing to make things safer.  I am not opposed to such legislation... as I also cannot fathom why someone needs an "assault weapon" (whatever that is)(they know one when they see one) with 30 round clips.  Ban em... if it makes you feel better.

I take no issue with making the process to purchase a new weapon more difficult and the standards raised for prospective buyers.  Reasonable limitations on types of weapons and raising standards are measures I will support.

That said... me... and many people like me... will be vigilant for the "slippery slope" syndrome where once some reasonable limitations are placed on our second amendment right are in place... there will be some who want further and further limitations that I and others will not support.

[Tacachale]

Knowledgeable people know what "assault weapon" means when they see them, and know that potential bans will necessarily include specific criteria. They're talking about military style weapons with particular features, not traditional hunting rifles or handguns that happen to be semi-automatic. I don't know why some folks in the gun crowd try to conflate these things, but it's a losing battle for anyone who wants to preserve gun rights in a sensible manner.

[BridgeTroll]

Knowledgeable people know what "assault weapon" means when they see them, and know that potential bans will necessarily include specific criteria. They're talking about military style weapons with particular features, not traditional hunting rifles or handguns that happen to be semi-automatic. I don't know why some folks in the gun crowd try to conflate these things, but it's a losing battle for anyone who wants to preserve gun rights in a sensible manner.

Not trying to conflate... and I am not a member of the "gun crowd".  Please illustrate the working differances between a hunting rifle and military style assault rifle.  I would also ask what your definition of "gun crowd" is.

[BridgeTroll]

Here would be a good working referance...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban

Criteria of an assault weapon

Assault weapon (semi-automatic) refers primarily (but not exclusively) to firearms that possess the cosmetic features of an assault rifle (which are fully-automatic). Actually possessing the operational features, such as 'full-auto', is not required for classification as an assault weapon; merely the possession of cosmetic features is enough to warrant such classification as an assault weapon. Semi-automatic firearms, when fired, automatically extract the spent cartridge casing and load the next cartridge into the chamber, ready to fire again; they do not fire automatically like a machine gun; rather, only one round is fired with each trigger pull.

In the former U.S. law, the legal term assault weapon included certain specific semi-automatic firearm models by name (e.g., Colt AR-15, TEC-9, non-select-fire AK-47s produced by three manufacturers, and Uzis) and other semi-automatic firearms because they possess a minimum set of cosmetic features from the following list of features:

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:

Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device that enables launching or firing rifle grenades, though this applies only to muzzle mounted grenade launchers and not those mounted externally).
Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following: Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of a fully automatic firearm.
Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following: Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine.

[BridgeTroll]

nobody needs to shoot up to fifty people within three minutes.

Whatever terminology may exist to strain over, I think thats the bottom line.

I dont think anyone disagrees here Stephen... I certainly do not.  The question is... How do you get there?