Repeat Offender Arrested in shooting of Five Men on the Westside

[Gators312]

It's not, that's my point.  The enforcement is weak.  Especially when it comes to people with mental issues.  I see two main problems.

  First, lots of people go undiagnosed and untreated.  Most of these peole show signs long before they act. Parents are confused or scared of their children when they show signs of violence and don't know where to turn.  Who wants to admit that their child is a psychopath?

  Secondly, even if diagnosed there is nothing to stop them from buying a gun.  The only thing on the ATF form 4473 that mentions mental illness is basically "have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? Y/n".  That's it.  Of course lying on that form is a 5 year felony or something similar, but dies someone with these motives really care?


I feel that there has to be a better way to solve this problem than removing rights from the rest of us.   Thousands die in DUI accidents each year, but we don't ban all sales of alcohol to solve the problem.

I just don't see why we all have to restructure our entire lives, turn our schools into fortresses, create security checkpoints and submit ourselves to body searches and patdowns just so a few people can possess guns that can shoot five people to death per second.

Thats not the right that the second amendment was designed to protect, and pretending that it does forces everyone else to give up other rights (like the right not to be searched, for example) and far too often the greatest right of all---the right not to be killed by a gunman with hundreds of bullets.

You are so right Stephen.
The 2nd Amendment was written in very different times. If the founding fathers had any idea how advanced guns would evolve and how violent our society would eventually become they just may have reworded it
My problem with gun lovers is how they want to extend the right to everyone, without a record, to possess whatever gun they chose. I say let everyone have a gun like the ones that existed in the days the 2nd was written. Anything else would be illegal.
It's funny that every time something like this happens gun advocates start becoming defensive and frighten the citizens with the idea that the government is about to take all their guns.
My facebook friends, I loosely call some of them that, have been posting all this nonsense about how Obama has a secret bill that is about to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
They are making crackpot statements like "He'll never take my guns."
Sensible gun control should not be about politics but it is.

Wasn't the 2nd amendment written to allow citizens to protect themselves from the Army/Govt to ensure they couldn't force you to house soldiers in your home as the British were forcing colonists to do? 

[If_I_Loved_you]

five bullets a second.......

Who needs to be able to do this in a city?

No one unless you're hunting Humans? 

How about a Hello Kitty Rifle?

[avonjax]

It's not, that's my point.  The enforcement is weak.  Especially when it comes to people with mental issues.  I see two main problems.

  First, lots of people go undiagnosed and untreated.  Most of these peole show signs long before they act. Parents are confused or scared of their children when they show signs of violence and don't know where to turn.  Who wants to admit that their child is a psychopath?

  Secondly, even if diagnosed there is nothing to stop them from buying a gun.  The only thing on the ATF form 4473 that mentions mental illness is basically "have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? Y/n".  That's it.  Of course lying on that form is a 5 year felony or something similar, but dies someone with these motives really care?


I feel that there has to be a better way to solve this problem than removing rights from the rest of us.   Thousands die in DUI accidents each year, but we don't ban all sales of alcohol to solve the problem.

I just don't see why we all have to restructure our entire lives, turn our schools into fortresses, create security checkpoints and submit ourselves to body searches and patdowns just so a few people can possess guns that can shoot five people to death per second.

Thats not the right that the second amendment was designed to protect, and pretending that it does forces everyone else to give up other rights (like the right not to be searched, for example) and far too often the greatest right of all---the right not to be killed by a gunman with hundreds of bullets.

You are so right Stephen.
The 2nd Amendment was written in very different times. If the founding fathers had any idea how advanced guns would evolve and how violent our society would eventually become they just may have reworded it
My problem with gun lovers is how they want to extend the right to everyone, without a record, to possess whatever gun they chose. I say let everyone have a gun like the ones that existed in the days the 2nd was written. Anything else would be illegal.
It's funny that every time something like this happens gun advocates start becoming defensive and frighten the citizens with the idea that the government is about to take all their guns.
My facebook friends, I loosely call some of them that, have been posting all this nonsense about how Obama has a secret bill that is about to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
They are making crackpot statements like "He'll never take my guns."
Sensible gun control should not be about politics but it is.

Wasn't the 2nd amendment written to allow citizens to protect themselves from the Army/Govt to ensure they couldn't force you to house soldiers in your home as the British were forcing colonists to do? 

Like I said different times.
With the sophisticated weapons at the Army's disposal we wouldn't stand a chance. In that scenario we don't need guns at all.

[If_I_Loved_you]

It's not, that's my point.  The enforcement is weak.  Especially when it comes to people with mental issues.  I see two main problems.

  First, lots of people go undiagnosed and untreated.  Most of these peole show signs long before they act. Parents are confused or scared of their children when they show signs of violence and don't know where to turn.  Who wants to admit that their child is a psychopath?

  Secondly, even if diagnosed there is nothing to stop them from buying a gun.  The only thing on the ATF form 4473 that mentions mental illness is basically "have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? Y/n".  That's it.  Of course lying on that form is a 5 year felony or something similar, but dies someone with these motives really care?


I feel that there has to be a better way to solve this problem than removing rights from the rest of us.   Thousands die in DUI accidents each year, but we don't ban all sales of alcohol to solve the problem.

I just don't see why we all have to restructure our entire lives, turn our schools into fortresses, create security checkpoints and submit ourselves to body searches and patdowns just so a few people can possess guns that can shoot five people to death per second.

Thats not the right that the second amendment was designed to protect, and pretending that it does forces everyone else to give up other rights (like the right not to be searched, for example) and far too often the greatest right of all---the right not to be killed by a gunman with hundreds of bullets.

You are so right Stephen.
The 2nd Amendment was written in very different times. If the founding fathers had any idea how advanced guns would evolve and how violent our society would eventually become they just may have reworded it
My problem with gun lovers is how they want to extend the right to everyone, without a record, to possess whatever gun they chose. I say let everyone have a gun like the ones that existed in the days the 2nd was written. Anything else would be illegal.
It's funny that every time something like this happens gun advocates start becoming defensive and frighten the citizens with the idea that the government is about to take all their guns.
My facebook friends, I loosely call some of them that, have been posting all this nonsense about how Obama has a secret bill that is about to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
They are making crackpot statements like "He'll never take my guns."
Sensible gun control should not be about politics but it is.

Wasn't the 2nd amendment written to allow citizens to protect themselves from the Army/Govt to ensure they couldn't force you to house soldiers in your home as the British were forcing colonists to do? 

Like I said different times.
With the sophisticated weapons at the Army's disposal we wouldn't stand a chance. In that scenario we don't need guns at all.

We do need guns people do hunt for animals, birds and for home protection. Assault Weapons should be the only guns that should be ban!   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y88VNIeNSZo

[carpnter]

It's not, that's my point.  The enforcement is weak.  Especially when it comes to people with mental issues.  I see two main problems.

  First, lots of people go undiagnosed and untreated.  Most of these peole show signs long before they act. Parents are confused or scared of their children when they show signs of violence and don't know where to turn.  Who wants to admit that their child is a psychopath?

  Secondly, even if diagnosed there is nothing to stop them from buying a gun.  The only thing on the ATF form 4473 that mentions mental illness is basically "have you been diagnosed with a mental illness? Y/n".  That's it.  Of course lying on that form is a 5 year felony or something similar, but dies someone with these motives really care?


I feel that there has to be a better way to solve this problem than removing rights from the rest of us.   Thousands die in DUI accidents each year, but we don't ban all sales of alcohol to solve the problem.

I just don't see why we all have to restructure our entire lives, turn our schools into fortresses, create security checkpoints and submit ourselves to body searches and patdowns just so a few people can possess guns that can shoot five people to death per second.

Thats not the right that the second amendment was designed to protect, and pretending that it does forces everyone else to give up other rights (like the right not to be searched, for example) and far too often the greatest right of all---the right not to be killed by a gunman with hundreds of bullets.

You are so right Stephen.
The 2nd Amendment was written in very different times. If the founding fathers had any idea how advanced guns would evolve and how violent our society would eventually become they just may have reworded it
My problem with gun lovers is how they want to extend the right to everyone, without a record, to possess whatever gun they chose. I say let everyone have a gun like the ones that existed in the days the 2nd was written. Anything else would be illegal.
It's funny that every time something like this happens gun advocates start becoming defensive and frighten the citizens with the idea that the government is about to take all their guns.
My facebook friends, I loosely call some of them that, have been posting all this nonsense about how Obama has a secret bill that is about to take guns away from law abiding citizens.
They are making crackpot statements like "He'll never take my guns."
Sensible gun control should not be about politics but it is.

Wasn't the 2nd amendment written to allow citizens to protect themselves from the Army/Govt to ensure they couldn't force you to house soldiers in your home as the British were forcing colonists to do? 

Like I said different times.
With the sophisticated weapons at the Army's disposal we wouldn't stand a chance. In that scenario we don't need guns at all.

There is still the need for protection from those that would do you harm. 
Also the sophisticated weaponry of the military can only do so much against small guerrilla type groups, at some point you have to commit troops to do the work that cannot be done by the heavy equipment.   

[avonjax]

I did not say ban guns. I was just making a point about what the 2nd amendment was written for. I'm not a gun person but I find nothing wrong with anyone who wants to own a sensible gun. For hunting and so on. I don't own a gun and never plan to. So often violent acts happen so quickly you don't have a chance anyway. If you feel safer with a gun in your home that's fine with me. All that concerns me is the NRA and all the gun lovers out there want a free for all. They don't even want to consider a sensible solution.

[Cheshire Cat]

This discussion is headed in the right direction.  Keep the thoughts coming while holding the current tone of this conversation and collectively we raise the discourse on a very important topic impacting all of us. 

[carpnter]

I did not say ban guns. I was just making a point about what the 2nd amendment was written for. I'm not a gun person but I find nothing wrong with anyone who wants to own a sensible gun. For hunting and so on. I don't own a gun and never plan to. So often violent acts happen so quickly you don't have a chance anyway. If you feel safer with a gun in your home that's fine with me. All that concerns me is the NRA and all the gun lovers out there want a free for all. They don't even want to consider a sensible solution.

No one with any sense wants a free for all, and stereotyping NRA members(I am not one) and engaging in hyperbole does nothing to contribute to the discussion.   
What sensible solutions do you think will work?  Do you really think that banning assault weapons would have saved those kids in that senseless attack?  When a tragedy like this happens everyone wants to do something but unless you can take your emotions out of it and look objectively at what happened, how it happened, and why it happened you won't end up doing anything that will do any good.  We need to do it right and not right now. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

I did not say ban guns. I was just making a point about what the 2nd amendment was written for. I'm not a gun person but I find nothing wrong with anyone who wants to own a sensible gun. For hunting and so on. I don't own a gun and never plan to. So often violent acts happen so quickly you don't have a chance anyway. If you feel safer with a gun in your home that's fine with me. All that concerns me is the NRA and all the gun lovers out there want a free for all. They don't even want to consider a sensible solution.

No one with any sense wants a free for all, and stereotyping NRA members(I am not one) and engaging in hyperbole does nothing to contribute to the discussion.   
What sensible solutions do you think will work?  Do you really think that banning assault weapons would have saved those kids in that senseless attack?  When a tragedy like this happens everyone wants to do something but unless you can take your emotions out of it and look objectively at what happened, how it happened, and why it happened you won't end up doing anything that will do any good.  We need to do it right and not right now.

Wrong we need to do it Right Now! Look the Media has a short Attention span so do most Americans? The ban on assault weapons should be better then what was passed in 1994 and lasted 10 years. A new ban should have no loop holes and if you have an assault weapon you should turn it in at a police buy back program. I don't have all the answers but to poo poo this over the next several months would be just stupid.

[Gators312]

As the mexican cartels look for other ways to offset their losses from the legalization of marijuana in Colorado and Washington an assault weapons ban hands them a new product to peddle on the black market.

Also we can't even mow our right of ways or keep our schools funded to have PE, but we have the money to buy back guns?

Don't get me wrong I want to see the US to find a solution to the senseless
killings, I just don't think a knee jerk reaction is going
to solve it. 

I'm not an NRA member and I don't own assault weapons, I just don't believe
we can legislate morality, nor stop gun murders with a new law banning these weapons.

[If_I_Loved_you]

As the mexican cartels look for other ways to offset their losses from the legalization of marijuana in Colorado and Washington an assault weapons ban hands them a new product to peddle on the black market.

Also we can't even mow our right of ways or keep our schools funded to have PE, but we have the money to buy back guns?

Don't get me wrong I want to see the US to find a solution to the senseless
killings, I just don't think a knee jerk reaction is going
to solve it. 

I'm not an NRA member and I don't own assault weapons, I just don't believe
we can legislate morality, nor stop gun murders with a new law banning these weapons.

Who's talking about legislate morality? Is that what we would be doing if we ban assault weapons?

[Gators312]

I'm saying it's hard to legislate people not killing other people.

Or the overall prinicple that this type of behavior isn't acceptable.

[carpnter]

I did not say ban guns. I was just making a point about what the 2nd amendment was written for. I'm not a gun person but I find nothing wrong with anyone who wants to own a sensible gun. For hunting and so on. I don't own a gun and never plan to. So often violent acts happen so quickly you don't have a chance anyway. If you feel safer with a gun in your home that's fine with me. All that concerns me is the NRA and all the gun lovers out there want a free for all. They don't even want to consider a sensible solution.

No one with any sense wants a free for all, and stereotyping NRA members(I am not one) and engaging in hyperbole does nothing to contribute to the discussion.   
What sensible solutions do you think will work?  Do you really think that banning assault weapons would have saved those kids in that senseless attack?  When a tragedy like this happens everyone wants to do something but unless you can take your emotions out of it and look objectively at what happened, how it happened, and why it happened you won't end up doing anything that will do any good.  We need to do it right and not right now.

Wrong we need to do it Right Now! Look the Media has a short Attention span so do most Americans? The ban on assault weapons should be better then what was passed in 1994 and lasted 10 years. A new ban should have no loop holes and if you have an assault weapon you should turn it in at a police buy back program. I don't have all the answers but to poo poo this over the next several months would be just stupid.

You completely missed the point.  It is more important to take the time to pass the correct legislation instead of rushing to pass bad legislation that does nothing except make you feel good. 
Doing it right is more important than doing it "right now"

[If_I_Loved_you]

I did not say ban guns. I was just making a point about what the 2nd amendment was written for. I'm not a gun person but I find nothing wrong with anyone who wants to own a sensible gun. For hunting and so on. I don't own a gun and never plan to. So often violent acts happen so quickly you don't have a chance anyway. If you feel safer with a gun in your home that's fine with me. All that concerns me is the NRA and all the gun lovers out there want a free for all. They don't even want to consider a sensible solution.

No one with any sense wants a free for all, and stereotyping NRA members(I am not one) and engaging in hyperbole does nothing to contribute to the discussion.   
What sensible solutions do you think will work?  Do you really think that banning assault weapons would have saved those kids in that senseless attack?  When a tragedy like this happens everyone wants to do something but unless you can take your emotions out of it and look objectively at what happened, how it happened, and why it happened you won't end up doing anything that will do any good.  We need to do it right and not right now.

Wrong we need to do it Right Now! Look the Media has a short Attention span so do most Americans? The ban on assault weapons should be better then what was passed in 1994 and lasted 10 years. A new ban should have no loop holes and if you have an assault weapon you should turn it in at a police buy back program. I don't have all the answers but to poo poo this over the next several months would be just stupid.

You completely missed the point.  It is more important to take the time to pass the correct legislation instead of rushing to pass bad legislation that does nothing except make you feel good. 
Doing it right is more important than doing it "right now"

I didn't miss the point besides the House and Senate will take forever to get something passed anyway.

[carpnter]

Why does anyone need to shoot five people in one second?

Is that just your God given Right?

The right to kill your neighbors in masses before they can react?

Stephen, you've been parroting this line since you started posting about the story.  A handgun can only fire as fast as you can pull the trigger, they aren't automatic.  Five rounds a second means you are pulling the trigger 5 times in a second which is very fast for any normal person.  If you are pulling the trigger that fast you are not changing targets, you are firing at a single target, because you simply cannot pull the trigger that fast and aim at 5 different targets in one second.  I doubt you'd find many people who could even aim and hit two different targets in a second.