Downtown Revitalization: Tallahassee

[CityLife]

^Right now all signs point to College Town being a success. All but 2 of the retail spaces are already leased and it is still a year or so out to completion. They've got some cool tenants and spaces lined up too including a rooftop pool/bar overlooking Doak. After College Town opens and more and more students start moving into the area near Gaines, that area will very likely supplant the Tennessee Strip as the college entertainment district. Other than Bullwinkles, Potbellies, and maybe AJ's, pretty much every bar/club is replaceable from a building perspective. I'd be shocked if someone doesn't make a big move towards moving a lot of the popular bars/clubs to Gaines St. in the next 1-5 years.

[DemocraticNole]

CityLife, I agree that College Town will be a huge success and that the center of student party life will move from the Tennessee strip to Gaines. That's what the city wants anyway and it would be better for everyone as obviously Tennessee Street is not exactly safe for pedestrians. Once that transition starts to occur, the city has talked about giving Tennessee Street a lane diet from 6 to 4 lanes with old outside lanes being reserved for buses and bicycles. Normally, I am supportive of lane diet programs, but with the amount of traffic volume that uses Tennessee with no alternate place to go, that would end up being a disaster.

[CityLife]

I'd have to know a little more about that project, but I could see some benefits. Particularly if it diverted any out of town through traffic to I-10. It would also make that area much more bike/pedestrian friendly and encourage more usage of the city bus system. Who knows, maybe it would even lead to the creation of trolley's or streetcars. With the amount of density that is building up that area, I could see a serious reduction in the amount of cars using Tennessee St, especially with better bike/ped infastructure.

Btw, are you the same DemocraticNole who posts on FSU sports forums?

[DemocraticNole]

^^Yes, I am. If a streetcar was part of the deal for the Tennessee Street lane diet, I would be all for it. I just am not a big believer in buses as the main mode of public transportation. Now certainly this is a long way off, but if there was a streetcar line that ran from say Govenor's Square Mall to the Capitol, past FSU down to say Doak, I think it would get a lot of use.

My perspective is certainly biased, but I didn't know anyone who ever rode the bus to get to and from school. Everyone drove. The only time we ever rode the bus was riding the Night Nole after drinking a couple of times. Buses sit in traffic like cars do. Because of that, I think many people just take the approach that they would just as well drive, rather than wait on the bus. Streetcars have proven to be different, especially with the right density surrounding the line.

[thelakelander]

During my first year, while living on campus, I used take the bus to the mall.

[tufsu1]

^^Yes, I am. If a streetcar was part of the deal for the Tennessee Street lane diet, I would be all for it.

that was the the plan....they wanted to try a demo of just restriping the lanes at first to see how traffic would be affected.

but...

FDOT killed the idea....basically strong-armed the City Commission into backing away from the plan...instead, FDOT is now proposing some traffic safety improvements on Tennessee St....including a few mid-block pedestrian crossing signals.

[I-10east]

So this begs the question; Which college town seems the most exclusively dominated by the hometown university (when it comes to the local college teams, news etc)? I can't speak for Tally, but I know that G-ville is completely fixated on one thing, and one thing only, the Gators. I had a stay down there at the VA Hospital a while back, and all of the news was Gator talk, with the World Series going on, they are talking third rate sports, Gator lacrosse, wrestling etc. Sometimes G-ville locals would look at you like an alien if you wore a shirt with the team not being the Gators. Just change the name of the city to Gatorville. I heard some people say that Austin is to that extreme with UT, but Austin has alot of other stuff going on with live music, the country music scene, fans of other teams like the Cowboys etc. I would go absolutely crazy living in a college town like Gainesville.

[peestandingup]

So this begs the question; Which college town seems the most exclusively dominated by the hometown university (when it comes to the local college teams, news etc) I can't speak for Tally, but I know that G-ville is completely fixated on one thing, and one thing only, the Gators. I had a stay down there at the VA Hospital a while back, and all of the news was Gator talk, with the World Series going on, they are talking third rate sports, Gator lacrosse, wrestling etc. G-ville locals would look at you like an alien if you wore a team besides the Gators sometimes. Just change it to Gatorville. I heard some people say that Austin is to that extreme with UT, but Austin has alot of other stuff going on with live music, the country music scene, fans of the Cowboys etc.

I haven't spent a lot of time in each town, but I'd say Gainesville probably takes the cake when it comes to that stuff. It seems smaller & a lot more "college town" oriented. Tally has that too, but its also the capital, is bigger & seems to have more of a working class. It reminded me of the same vibe I get in Knoxville TN or Lexington KY. Yes, UT (or UK) is prominent in lots of places, but its not the ONLY thing going on.

Let me put it this way. If I were a transplanted young adult (which I am), had some kids (which I do) & didn't really care about college sports (which I don't), I'd rather live in Tally. At least there there is an escape. In Gainesville there really is no escape (unless you hang out in one of the strip malls outside of town). You better love it there or else, like you said, you might as well be an alien from another planet.

[tufsu1]

Gainesville definitely....Tallahassee has 2 universities....plus the fact that it is the state capitol means that there are lots of people there not associated with either school

[thelakelander]

Gainesville definitely.  Piggybacking others, Tallahassee is a much larger city. Not everyone there bleeds garnet and gold!

[tufsu1]

umm...that pic isn't even from Tallahassee and that band doesn't exist anymore

[thelakelander]

LOL!  The sabbatical is almost up!

[Tacachale]

Ah, Tallanasty. The Tacachale clan has a Monticello branch, with whom I spent many happy days in my youth. Here are some stray thoughts from someone who's spent a considerable amount of time in Tallahassee as a non-student.

I agree with the perception that Tallahassee stands out among some other college towns as a place where non-students can live comfortably. My aunt and uncle have done it for over 20 years now. However, while it isn't quite as dominated by its college(s) as your Gainesvilles, Anne Arbors, or Athenses, it's still very much a small college town, and there's still a good bit of "town-and-gown" separation, especially in things like employment and entertainment options. But even though it's very college oriented, it's nice that there's a place in the environment for non-students.

Though Tallahassee has shot down attempts to consolidate with Leon County (where it's the only municipality), Tallahassee has annexed many miles of the surrounding area, including a lot of its suburban areas. Excluding the towns in adjoining counties, I'd recon that most of the Tallahassee suburbs are within the city limits at this point. I think this has a lot to do with the city not being so totally dominated by the colleges.

Somewhat related to that, I'd seriously challenge the notion that Tallahassee is "traditionally left wing". It's heavily Democratic, and the college students skew pretty liberal, but I wouldn't describe the community as a whole that way. A lot of those D-votes are from the state workers and the African American community; they're not necessarily "left wing". It's also very much a blue spot surrounded by the very reddest part of the state, which is, I'd imagine, the situation of a number of other college towns.

An interesting challenge for FSU has been their campus. They're considered the most "land-locked" university in the SUS, with a main campus that's only 450 acres for around 40k students. By comparison, A&M's main campus is about the same size, but serves about 10k people; Florida's campus is 2,000 acres for 49k students; and UNF's is 1,300 acres for 16k students. This makes any expansion very difficult and expensive for them, as it requires either buying land at considerable price, or moving functions away from the main campus. At the same time, though, they've made their main campus probably the best integrated with their city of any of our universities, though Tally's poor transportation system is a drawback.

The activity going on downtown has been very impressive. It's really changed since I was a kid, and it changes more every time I go back. I was there last summer for a wedding; we stayed at the Aloft and drank at the Hotel Duval; a friend of mine who graduated from FSU in '05 looked out from the rooftop bar and said, "This isn't Tallahassee".

Though I didn't get a chance to see the progress myself last time, I think the Gaines Street and parks projects will be huge. I've heard nothing but good things about them. But I disagree with the posters who think the student night life will shift away from West Tennessee. I just can't see that happening anytime soon; it's too convenient to FSU (a good bit closer than Gaines Street). At least not anytime soon.

There's probably a lot Jacksonville can take from some of Tallahassee's recent successes, in particular with infill development and the parks projects. It's another example of how fulfilling your potential can really pay off.

[thelakelander]

Though I didn't get a chance to see the progress myself last time, I think the Gaines Street and parks projects will be huge. I've heard nothing but good things about them. But I disagree with the posters who think the student night life will shift away from West Tennessee. I just can't see that happening anytime soon; it's too convenient to FSU (a good bit closer than Gaines Street). At least not anytime soon.

I think the wildcard for Gaines Street is Florida A&M.  Tennessee is pretty far but Gaines Street is within walking distance to  that campus.  I didn't spend much time on West Tennessee until I moved off campus to University Commons on Ocala Road. It also helps that Gaines will be anchored by Cascades Park on one end and Doak Campbell on the other with FSU and the civic center not too far away.

[Tacachale]

Though I didn't get a chance to see the progress myself last time, I think the Gaines Street and parks projects will be huge. I've heard nothing but good things about them. But I disagree with the posters who think the student night life will shift away from West Tennessee. I just can't see that happening anytime soon; it's too convenient to FSU (a good bit closer than Gaines Street). At least not anytime soon.

I think the wildcard for Gaines Street is Florida A&M.  Tennessee is pretty far but Gaines Street is within walking distance to  that campus.  I didn't spend much time on West Tennessee until I moved off campus to University Commons on Ocala Road. It also helps that Gaines will be anchored by Cascades Park on one end and Doak Campbell on the other with FSU and the civic center not too far away.

Very true. I do think that Gaines Street will become very popular and it's a great infill project for the city. But think about what you just said: when you moved off campus you moved off Ocala. That area has a ton of students from all of the colleges, and it's closer to the West Ten strip than to Gaines. Perhaps folks will move around Gaines when it becomes an option, but I just don't see West Ten going away anytime soon, especially not when so many of the most popular spots are still located there.