The Jacksonville Jaguars

[MEGATRON]

You have to take your lumps with them.  The only way a QB learns the NFL game is to play.  If you sit Gabbert for two years before you play him, then play him in that third year and he is not the guy, you have wasted three years.  The teams that have played the QBs in your list above either know or are learning whether they have the right guy to build around.

Which is exactly what we were doing with Gabbert this year - until he tore a labrum, and then we still played him, until he was so hurt and we were so out of it, it didn't warrant him being exposed to any more hits.

Now is the time we see if Henne can not only be a solid backup, but the The Guy.  He's only 4 years into it, with one year out because of injury - sometimes it takes time.  I would love for both of these guys to be bad-ass.

That said, I still stand by my argument.

Are you going to seriously tell me you would rather have Cam or Weeden?  RGIII, I not completely sold on - not saying he's bad, just that it took a few seasons for everyone to catch up with Mike Vick as well.  Luck, I get.  The others still haven't shown anything more than a flash here and a flash there, either.  Hell, Cleveland has drafted 4 QBs in rounds 1-3 since '05 - where's that gotten them?

So, this conversation has taken too many turns.  You originally stated that you wanted to sit Gabbert on the bench for a couple years.  That's how this discussion started.

I would absolutely rather have Newton over Gabbert.  RG3??  Are you kidding?  Yes x 1000.  You are showing your ignorance if you are comparing him to Vick.  RG3 is a pocket passer not a runner. 

Look, I want to like Gabbert, but it is becoming very apparent that he is not the guy.  The fact that Henne came in and the offense looked 250% improved makes that much more apparent.  And, yes, I realize that was only one game.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Leaving aside all the arguments on this topic...the Jacksonville Jaguars were born 19 years ago today.

[MEGATRON]

Remember NRW, the Jags are the only team with a young QB, and a losing record, or as many would like to believe. To me, it's Dalton, Luck (barring an epic collapse, I got them going to the playoffs this year) and everyone else is unproven. I totally agree that flash is overrated. I rather have a guy who' s becoming a master at his craft like Luck, than some immature 'all about me' flashy guy who does a Superman celebration when they are getting their butts kicked and makes excuses like Newton. Winning is 'flashy' in itself to me. Right on NRW, I totally agree with everything that you said.

I am not a Newton fan and do not think he will be a great NFL QB.  Exciting, yes, but probably not great.    But, my God, any list has to include RG3.  Dude is going to be a fantastic QB. 

No one is expecting all first-round QBs to succeed.  My guess is that only maybe 20% of them do.  But the teams that draft that 20% are the teams that make the playoffs.  If your QB is not one of those guys, you need to cut bait quick and find that guy.  Its a QB-driven league. Gabbert has 20 games under his belt and, thus far, the results have been terrible disappointing.  We are at the brink of cut bait time.

[Tacachale]

You have to take your lumps with them.  The only way a QB learns the NFL game is to play.  If you sit Gabbert for two years before you play him, then play him in that third year and he is not the guy, you have wasted three years.  The teams that have played the QBs in your list above either know or are learning whether they have the right guy to build around.

Which is exactly what we were doing with Gabbert this year - until he tore a labrum, and then we still played him, until he was so hurt and we were so out of it, it didn't warrant him being exposed to any more hits.

Now is the time we see if Henne can not only be a solid backup, but the The Guy.  He's only 4 years into it, with one year out because of injury - sometimes it takes time.  I would love for both of these guys to be bad-ass.

That said, I still stand by my argument.

Are you going to seriously tell me you would rather have Cam or Weeden?  RGIII, I not completely sold on - not saying he's bad, just that it took a few seasons for everyone to catch up with Mike Vick as well.  Luck, I get.  The others still haven't shown anything more than a flash here and a flash there, either.  Hell, Cleveland has drafted 4 QBs in rounds 1-3 since '05 - where's that gotten them?

So, this conversation has taken too many turns.  You originally stated that you wanted to sit Gabbert on the bench for a couple years.  That's how this discussion started.

I would absolutely rather have Newton over Gabbert.  RG3??  Are you kidding?  Yes x 1000.  You are showing your ignorance if you are comparing him to Vick.  RG3 is a pocket passer not a runner. 

Look, I want to like Gabbert, but it is becoming very apparent that he is not the guy.  The fact that Henne came in and the offense looked 250% improved makes that much more apparent.  And, yes, I realize that was only one game.

Happy birthday to us.

[I-10east]

I think the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is our questionable coaching. The Falcon fans warned us that Mularkey is very conservative, and of course he brings an old school conservative offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski. Our situational decisions are awful IMO. I'm not gonna ruffle feathers, and go to detailed with the questionable calls, but yall saw them throughout the year already.

Teams practically handed us wins, but our conservative play calling rears it's ugly head. Nobody is gonna convince me that we shouldn't have won atleast two extra games on the road, and be sitting at about 4-7 right now; Hell, we were in ALL of the road games!! When Henne/Gabbert  is given a crap nine in the box 'bunch everything up conservative run call' from Bob the OC, they need to audible out of that BS. I think that the defense is conservative too, but I'm not gonna get into that, because Mel apparently is yall good friend or something (I like Mel BTW). I'm really worried with the coaches (particularly the OC, and Mike Mularkey) going into next year. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

So, this conversation has taken too many turns.  You originally stated that you wanted to sit Gabbert on the bench for a couple years.  That's how this discussion started.

I'm still on it.  I haven't strayed from that thought.

I would absolutely rather have Newton over Gabbert.

What on earth have you seen that would make you say that?  I'm sorry, but I haven't seen him do anything special.  Last year was an anomaly, and it's becoming even more evident this year.  Gabbert has shown signs of progression and Cam has regressed.  Hell, I'd almost be willing to be that he goes the Jamarcus / VYoung route in the next year or two.

Look, I want to like Gabbert, but it is becoming very apparent that he is not the guy.  The fact that Henne came in and the offense looked 250% improved makes that much more apparent.  And, yes, I realize that was only one game.

I'm not completely disagreeing, and the point that you want to overlook is that maybe the reason Henne 'all of a sudden' looks better is because he's had some time with the clipboard.  I think that this time next year, Gabbert should be heads and shoulders above him if he's allowed to do the same thing.  Like I said, my main hope now is for both of these guys to be starting caliber guys.  Let's have a true QB competition for a change.
[/quote]

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

I think the elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about is our questionable coaching. The Falcon fans warned us the Mularkey is very conservative, and of course he brings an old school conservative offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski. Our situational decisions are awful IMO. I'm not gonna ruffle feathers, and go to detailed with the questionable calls, but yall saw them throughout the year already.

Teams practically handed us wins, but our conservative play calling rears it's ugly head. Nobody is gonna convince me that we shouldn't have won atleast two extra games on the road, and be sitting at about 4-7 right now; Hell, we were in ALL of the road games!! When Henne/Gabbert  is given a crap nine in the box 'bunch everything up conservative run call' from Bob the OC, they need to audible out of the crap. I think that the defense is conservative too, but I'm not gonna get into that, because Mel apparently is yall good friend or something (I like Mel BTW). I'm really worried with the coaches (particularly the OC, and Mike Mularkey) going into next year.

For the most part I've got to disagree with you here, I-10.  I think our formations more going on to them than most other offenses in the league.  We use multiple formations, multiple motions and a good deal of WR groupings - and when clicking, we can run, throw, PA, draw all out of many of the different looks we give. 

The issue I see is that maybe we're trying to be too complex just to run a simple play.

It doesn't take 2 formation shifts and a motion across the backfield to run a counter play - it gives the defense too long to dissect the players at the line of scrimmage.  I don't think we use quick snaps enough.  I think that we should run more screens.

Where I agree with you the most is that we've got to stop running our 'prevent' offense.  It almost prevented us from winning last week and it did prevent us from winning in Houston.

[I-10east]

I am not a Newton fan and do not think he will be a great NFL QB.  Exciting, yes, but probably not great.    But, my God, any list has to include RG3.  Dude is going to be a fantastic QB. 

RG3 is looking very promising, and he definitely looks like he is the real deal, but lets wait a lil' for him to atleast contend for the playoffs before already putting him in the lofty status of 'proven'. IMO people put too much stock into 300 yard games in a losing effort; Many times good YAC receivers really help assist those great numbers, on a three-yard quick out; I think that 300 yard stat is okay, but somehow people think that it's the end all be all. Remember when people rushed to judgement with Newton, already making him a legitimate star.

[BridgeTroll]

Alex smith will likely become available...

[I-10east]

For the most part I've got to disagree with you here, I-10.  I think our formations more going on to them than most other offenses in the league.  We use multiple formations, multiple motions and a good deal of WR groupings - and when clicking, we can run, throw, PA, draw all out of many of the different looks we give. 

I remember the TNF game vs the Colts, and we kept insisting to do a short lil' WR out play, that the Colts were homing in on, as it was nearly intercepted; I be damned if they didn't do the play again, which of course resulted in a pick six. I get that we can't go deep too often because of the inconsistent protection, but we have to atleast keep the opposing secondary honest with a mid-ranged pass. We executed one nice tight end screen play to Lewis as he gained some good yards (I forgot who we played) and of course that's the last time that play was implemented. I can go on and on, I'm just not sold with our play calling. Don't let me get started on the predictable bunch it up run calls. I'll say this much though, for some reason with Henne in there as of late, our offense seems to be on one page more than not. Keep audibling out of the bad play calls if you have to Henne. 

[duvaldude08]

Being that I really dont like debates, I have not posted since early yesterday. Here's my last and final statement on Gabbert. He has what it takes. Gabbert is his own enemy right. He is his own problem. He clearly has the tools to be our starter. But his lack of confidence at times, and him not looking down field and going through all his progessions, is killing him. Its him. He's doing it to his self and thats what fustrates me the most about it. If his career does not work out here, its his fault and no one else's at this point. He has what it takes, now do it sunshine! 

[comncense]

Cam plays on a crappy team, yet I still think he's better than Gabbert.

and Blaine doesn't play on a crappy team, hahaha! I'm not saying the Blaine is definitely the answer, but lets get real here...

My point is they both are on crappy teams yet I can still tell that Cam is a better QB than Blaine...

[Wacca Pilatka]

We executed one nice tight end screen play to Lewis as he gained some good yards (I forgot who we played) and of course that's the last time that play was implemented.

I think that was in the Cincinnati game.  As I recall, it was called again in one of the next couple of games but was called back due to holding or illegal man downfield or something.

[MEGATRON]

But his lack of confidence at times, and him not looking down field and going through all his progessions, is killing him  ... He has what it takes, now do it sunshine! 

Then perhaps he does not have what it takes.

[duvaldude08]

But his lack of confidence at times, and him not looking down field and going through all his progessions, is killing him  ... He has what it takes, now do it sunshine! 

Then perhaps he does not have what it takes.

........