Red Light Cameras coming to an Intersection Near You

[tufsu1]

Even more "genius" is how the camera operators and cities increase fines by shortening the yellow light time:
http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

by law in Florida, all lights must provide at least 3 seconds of yellow time

[If_I_Loved_you]

If the revenue falls like that it means that the cameras are working to reduce the number of red-light runners, doesn't it?

So they are failing as a revenue device, but working as a safety device.  Problem is the business model, not their effectiveness.

DW have you seen the "Pedestrian Countdown Clocks" at a lot of intersections in Jacksonville Florida? I have found these to be helpful to giving me an idea when a traffic light is about to change.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Instead of Red Light Camera's why not "Countdown Traffic Lights?" You see countdown traffic lights everywhere else in the world but the United States of America. See the problem with red light cameras is the city wants that REVENUE and if your not going to raise Prop Taxes well then this is the next best thing? Back in 2009 the Sun-Times newspaper in Chicago did a story on countdown traffic lights.

http://theexpiredmeter.com/2009/02/alderman-introduces-countdown-timers-at-red-light-camera-intersections/

EXPERTS OPPOSED | Alderman calls for countdown signals at all red-light camera corners to cut crashes

By Fran Spielman

Chicago motorists routinely slam on the brakes to avoid getting nailed by red-light cameras. Some have caused rear-end collisions while avoiding the dreaded $100 ticket.

That panicky behavior could come to a halt, if South Side Ald. Anthony Beale (9th) has his way.

Beale has introduced an ordinance that would mandate countdown signals at every one of the 132 accident-prone Chicago intersections where red-light cameras have already been installed and at the 330 intersections expected to get cameras by 2012.

Chicago has 2,900 intersections with traffic signals, but only 230 countdown signals. They’re normally installed to protect pedestrians â€" by providing anywhere from 15 to 30 seconds of visual warning to get across a busy intersection before the light changes.

But, Beale maintained that motorists also need protection â€" from each other.

“I’m trying to cure the high accident rate at these intersections during rain, sleet and snow. I’ve seen people slamming on the brakes when the light turns yellow to avoid getting a red-light ticket and getting rear-ended or close to rear-ended,” Beale said.

“If you had a countdown, that would give people a better gauge. You’d have enough time to decide whether you can make it through the intersection or whether it’s better to just slow down.”

Traffic safety experts warned that countdown signals at red-light camera intersections could make the accident problem worse.

“At least some drivers will speed up so they can catch the end of the green. That’s not what we want,” said Robert Seyfried, director of transportation engineering programs for Northwestern University Center for Public Safety.

“Countdown signals are oriented toward pedestrians â€" not toward drivers. In fact, we don’t really want drivers to notice or pay attention to countdown signals. If they are, at least some of them are gonna speed up.”

Joe Schwieterman, a transportation professor and director of DePaul University’s Chaddick Institute of Metropolitan Development, added, “When you see that thing at three seconds, you floor it. Your eyes focus on the countdown clock. There’s a consequence to that, too. While people would see maybe less slamming on the brakes, it also encourages risky behavior.”

Schwieterman said there are “bigger fish to fry” to improve pedestrian and driver safety than installing countdown signals at a cost of $15,000 per corner and $45,000 at the oldest signals.

“We have serious problems with pedestrians using earplug equipment crossing streets without looking. We have serious pothole problems. We have a need for better traffic light synchronization to keep traffic moving. All of that seems like a higher priority,” he said.

Transportation Department spokesman Brian Steele said the city has been installing countdown signals at a rate of 20 intersections a year.

“The presence of a red-light camera is not the main criteria. … The primary criteria is pedestrian volume. Pedestrian signals are intended to inform pedestrians,” he said.

Red-light cameras have pumped out more than 1 million Chicago tickets and generated $100 million in sorely needed revenue since 2003 while reducing red-light running by 59 percent.

[BridgeTroll]

When posting articles... please post the link.  Thank you. 

[If_I_Loved_you]

When posting articles... please post the link.  Thank you. 

I went back and put the link in.

[If_I_Loved_you]

Here is a study about countdown traffic lights. http://www.inudgeyou.com/traffic-nudge-countdown-traffic-lights/

[tufsu1]

If the revenue falls like that it means that the cameras are working to reduce the number of red-light runners, doesn't it?

So they are failing as a revenue device, but working as a safety device.  Problem is the business model, not their effectiveness.

DW have you seen the "Pedestrian Countdown Clocks" at a lot of intersections in Jacksonville Florida? I have found these to be helpful to giving me an idea when a traffic light is about to change.

also now a state law...in fact, the Jacksonville area has been one of the slowest in Florida to modify existing lights

[If_I_Loved_you]

If the revenue falls like that it means that the cameras are working to reduce the number of red-light runners, doesn't it?

So they are failing as a revenue device, but working as a safety device.  Problem is the business model, not their effectiveness.

DW have you seen the "Pedestrian Countdown Clocks" at a lot of intersections in Jacksonville Florida? I have found these to be helpful to giving me an idea when a traffic light is about to change.

also now a state law...in fact, the Jacksonville area has been one of the slowest in Florida to modify existing lights

I didn't know that thanks for the info. 

[TheCat]

Even more "genius" is how the camera operators and cities increase fines by shortening the yellow light time:
http://blog.motorists.org/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

by law in Florida, all lights must provide at least 3 seconds of yellow time

From what I understand, the laws were being broken and it's why those cities were required to pay out huge sums of money.

[Dog Walker]

The root of the red-light running problem is excessive speed.  If you are doing fifty MPH in a forty MPH zone, then the yellow is going to be too short for you.  You will either run the red or stand on the brakes and risk being rear-ended by the guy behind you who is doing fifty-five.

[ChriswUfGator]

The root of the red-light running problem is excessive speed.  If you are doing fifty MPH in a forty MPH zone, then the yellow is going to be too short for you.  You will either run the red or stand on the brakes and risk being rear-ended by the guy behind you who is doing fifty-five.

I agree with you, but I'd still point out it's usually the city that's to blame for it. Look at places like Beach Blvd., etc., where you've got a 45mph speed limit and a couple seconds of yellow light, if you're lucky. Then you have places like Green Cove Springs getting busted for shortening the yellow lights in an effort to generate more revenue. It's common sense if you have a 40 or 45mph speed limit, you need more than 2 or 3 seconds of yellow, otherwise your choices are run the light or slam on the brakes. Neither is safe.

[peestandingup]

The root of the red-light running problem is excessive speed.  If you are doing fifty MPH in a forty MPH zone, then the yellow is going to be too short for you.  You will either run the red or stand on the brakes and risk being rear-ended by the guy behind you who is doing fifty-five.

I agree with you, but I'd still point out it's usually the city that's to blame for it. Look at places like Beach Blvd., etc., where you've got a 45mph speed limit and a couple seconds of yellow light, if you're lucky. Then you have places like Green Cove Springs getting busted for shortening the yellow lights in an effort to generate more revenue. It's common sense if you have a 40 or 45mph speed limit, you need more than 2 or 3 seconds of yellow, otherwise your choices are run the light or slam on the brakes. Neither is safe.

Yep. I've ALWAYS thought that there needs to be a 4th light (between green & yellow). Having a couple seconds to react to a yellow light is simply retarded. Esp, like you said, in a 45 MPH zone. Its pretty much just short of having to completely slam on the brakes to react to it. But I also think people's heads would explode if you threw another light color into the mix. We're all just monkeys driving death machines out there anyway.

And if you guys think this isn't about generating more revenue (with less police force presence they would have to pay for) then you're dreaming. They just love to play the "safety" angle. And while there may be some truth to that, still. They don't seem to give 2 shits about pedestrian safety or cyclists. And lets be honest, if they REALLY wanted to nip that whole "safety" thing in the bud, they'd work to get more cars off the roads, and more alternative modes of transit.

Death, mayhem, crashes & tickets = industry.

[tufsu1]

The solution in many parts of the world is the following phases:

Green
Green + Yellow
Yellow
Yellow + Red
Red

[Adam W]

The solution in many parts of the world is the following phases:

Green
Green + Yellow
Yellow
Yellow + Red
Red

And there's the weird Red+Yellow one you get before Green in some places, too.

[TeganHughes]

I dont think cameras like these should be allowed. It's simple a revenue generation method for the city. It has been proven that these do nothing to reduce the amount of accidents or speeders. Get rid of these police state type cameras!