A Closer Look At 220 Riverside

[CityLife]

Uhhh...The YMCA is open till 10PM and the Riverwalk is always packed with joggers and bikers. The area is relatively dead after dark because nobody lives there, not because its a scary place. That will change when all these new units go up.

Where do you live eeyore?

[Captain Zissou]

Even if the area is less than stellar after dark, the entire neighborhood is a very isolated 6 by 9 block area (using the most generous measurements, it should be more like 6 by 6), where half of it is patrolled by private security after dark.  It's almost a fortified enclave of privately patrolled safety.  Once 220 and Brooklyn Park go in, I think this will be one of the safest areas in the entire core.

[MEGATRON]

Have you considered why Johnny's and Two Doors Down close after lunch?  Hookers, crackheads and muggers are the only people left in the area north of the Fuller Warren after the office buildings empty out.  Ask a JSO Officer to drive you through the area just to the west of Two Doors Down and you will see the real "Brooklyn".  $1,200.00 a month rent for this area is a fantasy.

[Riverrat]

So excited for this to get underway. This is a great project for the area - and such a great connection to downtown. I've always thought this would be the perfect "West End" type of area (if you're familiar with Nashville - it connects downtown with the historic districts).

With that said, why has everything possible been done to destroy Forest Street? Think about it. With the new interchange, this opened up a world of potential for Forest and Riverside, but instead? There are retention ponds and culdesacs (yes, culdesacs) strangely placed so that almost no corner on Forest can be developed.
Park & Forest: Retention Pond
Riverside & Forest: Park land
And I haven't yet figured out the two streets that dead end with a culdesac instead of connecting to Forest, but there are two of them. It's the most mind-boggling thing. It's as if someone didn't want anything done with this street besides it being a connector to Riverside Ave. A Frankenstein story of sorts.

[river4340]

The T-U story, though it's members only:

http://jacksonville.com/premium-promo/2012-11-13/story/transformational-riverside-avenue-project-will-kick-tuesday

[If_I_Loved_you]

Have you considered why Johnny's and Two Doors Down close after lunch?  Hookers, crackheads and muggers are the only people left in the area north of the Fuller Warren after the office buildings empty out.  Ask a JSO Officer to drive you through the area just to the west of Two Doors Down and you will see the real "Brooklyn".  $1,200.00 a month rent for this area is a fantasy.

"1,200.00 a month rent for this area is a fantasy." Not True if you have been to San Francisco, Chicago, and NYC you can pay a lot more and walk out of your apartment and see a lot worst then what Brooklyn Jacksonville Florida has on the streets. I believe this is a great idea and I look forward to it being built and seeing this area with new life. 

[jaxeeyore]

I will close out my highly intelligent comments on this issue with a final thought.  Look at the John Gorrie project on College Street and you will see the future of 220 Riverside.  It costs millions to develop, beautiful to look at, and sits vacant for years because ole Delores Weaver thought she could put lipstick on a pig and sell upscale condos in the hood.  Peace out. 

http://www.thejohngorrie.com/

[goldy21]

I will close out my highly intelligent comments on this issue with a final thought.  Look at the John Gorrie project on College Street and you will see the future of 220 Riverside.  It costs millions to develop, beautiful to look at, and sits vacant for years because ole Delores Weaver thought she could put lipstick on a pig and sell upscale condos in the hood.  Peace out. 

http://www.thejohngorrie.com/

[acme54321]

I will close out my highly intelligent comments on this issue with a final thought.  Look at the John Gorrie project on College Street and you will see the future of 220 Riverside.  It costs millions to develop, beautiful to look at, and sits vacant for years because ole Delores Weaver thought she could put lipstick on a pig and sell upscale condos in the hood.  Peace out. 

http://www.thejohngorrie.com/

So because a condo is having trouble selling means apartments a few miles away won't get rented?  Hmmm.

[duvaldude08]

I will close out my highly intelligent comments on this issue with a final thought.  Look at the John Gorrie project on College Street and you will see the future of 220 Riverside.  It costs millions to develop, beautiful to look at, and sits vacant for years because ole Delores Weaver thought she could put lipstick on a pig and sell upscale condos in the hood.  Peace out. 

http://www.thejohngorrie.com/

You missed on thing. John Corrie are condos and 220 Riverside are apartments. You have to get approved and financing for condos. That's the major set back on those. I searched for a condo at one point, and you have to pay pretty heafty down payments to get into one. The Apartment market is smoking right now, which will make 220 Riverside success. And since when is Riverside consider "the hood"

[downtownjag]

I will close out my highly intelligent comments on this issue with a final thought.  Look at the John Gorrie project on College Street and you will see the future of 220 Riverside.  It costs millions to develop, beautiful to look at, and sits vacant for years because ole Delores Weaver thought she could put lipstick on a pig and sell upscale condos in the hood.  Peace out. 

http://www.thejohngorrie.com/

You should probably look at rent PSF and find your competing properties before making your argument.  This project is much more comparable to The Strand than a condo project; and The Strand has comparable/higher rents PSF.

[simms3]

$1200/mo is relative.  I am most likely moving to SF in Jan/Feb and sure you can't even find a closet in the "wonderful" Tenderloin area for $1200, but you're also getting paid at least 60% more than where I live now, Atlanta, conversely where you're already getting paid probably 20-30% more than in Jax.

$1200/mo will be sticker shock to most in Jax.  The mentality in Jax is different.  It's a market where the expectations are a little different and it will take some time and "re-education" to build up a true critical mass of people demanding an expensive urban living experience.  In Jax $1200 will get you a 1BR in the best, newest community with square footage, granite countertops, amenities, security, new appliances, convenience, etc etc only 5-15 minutes from downtown and right in the heart of the city's largest office/shopping submarket.  There's not as large of a crowd in Jax that will willingly forgo that option for less square footage, less luxury features, less convenience, no walkability (yet), which is the whole reason for being there, and in an area with a less than stellar image in the community.  True, many cities have this class of people in large quantities (I know in SF people my age will live out of their car for a while just to be there), but in Jax the climate and rental model is just different.

When I check online, $1200 will nearly get you into the Strand, which is about as nice as a rental community gets ANYWHERE.  Is $1200 achievable?  Yes.  Is it a walk in the park to ask Jacksonvillians for that for this project in this area?  Probably not.

Fingers crossed for the developers and for Jacksonville/Brooklyn, but let's be real here, the only reason this is happening is because there is an apartment bubble and it's the only thing you can get debt for nowadays (with many agencies having loosened their underwriting standards for multifamily).  My firm has a multifamily development site that we inherited in Jax as part of a portfolio.  We continued on with the developments in Raleigh and Miami, let go of Orlando, and will let go of Jax because the overall market is just terrible.

Lots of new construction in the uber popular southside that will be competition for the Brooklyn projects.  Same rent, but you get so much more.  For most it will be an easy decision that will likely not lead them to Brooklyn.

[downtownjag]

$1200/mo is relative.  I am most likely moving to SF in Jan/Feb and sure you can't even find a closet in the "wonderful" Tenderloin area for $1200, but you're also getting paid at least 60% more than where I live now, Atlanta, conversely where you're already getting paid probably 20-30% more than in Jax.

$1200/mo will be sticker shock to most in Jax.  The mentality in Jax is different.  It's a market where the expectations are a little different and it will take some time and "re-education" to build up a true critical mass of people demanding an expensive urban living experience.  In Jax $1200 will get you a 1BR in the best, newest community with square footage, granite countertops, amenities, security, new appliances, convenience, etc etc only 5-15 minutes from downtown and right in the heart of the city's largest office/shopping submarket.  There's not as large of a crowd in Jax that will willingly forgo that option for less square footage, less luxury features, less convenience, no walkability (yet), which is the whole reason for being there, and in an area with a less than stellar image in the community.  True, many cities have this class of people in large quantities (I know in SF people my age will live out of their car for a while just to be there), but in Jax the climate and rental model is just different.

When I check online, $1200 will nearly get you into the Strand, which is about as nice as a rental community gets ANYWHERE.  Is $1200 achievable?  Yes.  Is it a walk in the park to ask Jacksonvillians for that for this project in this area?  Probably not.

Fingers crossed for the developers and for Jacksonville/Brooklyn, but let's be real here, the only reason this is happening is because there is an apartment bubble and it's the only thing you can get debt for nowadays (with many agencies having loosened their underwriting standards for multifamily).  My firm has a multifamily development site that we inherited in Jax as part of a portfolio.  We continued on with the developments in Raleigh and Miami, let go of Orlando, and will let go of Jax because the overall market is just terrible.

Lots of new construction in the uber popular southside that will be competition for the Brooklyn projects.  Same rent, but you get so much more.  For most it will be an easy decision that will likely not lead them to Brooklyn.

Agreed (for once)!

If you look a little farther into what's available; you'll find that there are virtually no, if any, one bedrooms or lofts available.  I hope Hallmark/MAA/Bristol has taken this into account when deciding the floor plan mix.  And I know, from shopping them, that they offer zero concessions on those units.

[downtownjag]

But I do think the decision to move to Riverside/SS may be a little harder than what you mentioned, if there's such thing as a sophisticated renter; I believe the one that spends +$1200 per month on an apartment is one.

They, in my opinion, may be more drawn to the uniqueness of the area, brand new YMCA on the other side of the road, and the non-chain dining options available in Riverside.

[simms3]

John Gorrie is a condo project, true, but if Delores lowers prices any further then she is doing community service.  She did not use any financing for the project and has the ability to sit on pricing until it comes up (if ever).  What's amazing is that nobody is apparently qualified for $100K home, or apparently thinks that is too much money!  Those condos are priced at about $150psf and are very well built with very good finishes in an actually decently walkable area.  If I were a young professional, I am, I'd rather live there than in Brooklyn!  Coffee shop, bakery, restaurants, bars all within walking distance in a hipster neighborhood where it's easy to bike around and cars understand that they're not the only ones on local roads.

Again, a sign that things are just a little different in Jax.  Give Brooklyn time, but don't expect great things in the short term (I'm sure the developers aren't...they've clearly proceeded with utmost caution).