World Religions - Atheism Discussion Thread

[If_I_Loved_you]

“[A true atheist is one who is willing to face the full consequences of what it means to say there is no God. Given some of what we treat as religion, this is a significant commitment. The bottom line is that] ... many an atheist is a believer without knowing it. You can sincerely believe there is no God and live as though there is. You can sincerely believe there is a God and live as though there isn't. So it goes ... ... Wishful Thinking.”
Frederick Buechner quotes (American Author, b.1926)

Typical misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. An atheist doesn't believe in god. Most atheists wouldn't claim to know 100% whether or not there actually IS a god.

But either way - it's not the same to believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence and to not believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence. Only one of those requires a leap of faith.

Adam W I have prayed for your soul and God understands you even if you don't really believe in him. 

Thanks Dude!

Your Welcome. 

[ben says]

“[A true atheist is one who is willing to face the full consequences of what it means to say there is no God. Given some of what we treat as religion, this is a significant commitment. The bottom line is that] ... many an atheist is a believer without knowing it. You can sincerely believe there is no God and live as though there is. You can sincerely believe there is a God and live as though there isn't. So it goes ... ... Wishful Thinking.”
Frederick Buechner quotes (American Author, b.1926)

Typical misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. An atheist doesn't believe in god. Most atheists wouldn't claim to know 100% whether or not there actually IS a god.

But either way - it's not the same to believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence and to not believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence. Only one of those requires a leap of faith.

Adam W I have prayed for your soul and God understands you even if you don't really believe in him. 

You sound just as insane as Scott looks in your avatar.

[If_I_Loved_you]

“[A true atheist is one who is willing to face the full consequences of what it means to say there is no God. Given some of what we treat as religion, this is a significant commitment. The bottom line is that] ... many an atheist is a believer without knowing it. You can sincerely believe there is no God and live as though there is. You can sincerely believe there is a God and live as though there isn't. So it goes ... ... Wishful Thinking.”
Frederick Buechner quotes (American Author, b.1926)

Typical misunderstanding of what it means to be an atheist. An atheist doesn't believe in god. Most atheists wouldn't claim to know 100% whether or not there actually IS a god.

But either way - it's not the same to believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence and to not believe in something that has no evidence whatsoever of its existence. Only one of those requires a leap of faith.

Adam W I have prayed for your soul and God understands you even if you don't really believe in him. 

You sound just as insane as Scott looks in your avatar.

Ben says not much for a man without a soul. I have blessed you also my son and may God forgive you because I have already. 

[PeeJayEss]

You sound just as insane as Scott looks in your avatar.

You can't reason with crazy, or with a group that holds ignorance as a virtue:
"The lord know that the thoughts of the wise are futile" - Corinthians

[ronchamblin]

The following are some scientist's views concerning the idea of god and spirituality.  I chose these from a few others because they are so close to my thinking, and the thinking of some others on MJ.  Some of these are quite beautiful.     

“What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science.  In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began.  This doesn’t prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary.”      Stephen Hawking.

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual...The notion that science and spirituality are somehow mutually exclusive does a disservice to both."     Carl Sagan.

"Emotionally, I am an atheist. I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect he doesn't that I don't want to waste my time".     Isaac Asimov.

"Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe - a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble. In this way the pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."     Albert Einstein.

"In my view, all that is necessary for faith is the belief that by doing our best we shall come nearer to success and that success in our aims (the improvement of the lot of mankind, present and future) is worth attaining...I maintain that faith in this world is perfectly possible without faith in another world."     Rosalind Franklin.

"God was invented to explain mystery. God is always invented to explain those things that you do not understand."     Richard Feynman.

"The more you understand the significance of evolution, the more you are pushed away from the agnostic position and towards atheism. Complex, statistically improbable things are by their nature more difficult to explain than simple, statistically probable things."     Richard Dawkins.

"Science can destroy religion by ignoring it as well as by disproving its tenets. No one ever demonstrated, so far as I am aware, the nonexistence of Zeus or Thor - but they have few followers now".      Arthur C. Clarke.

"With pantheism...the deity is associated with the order of nature or the universe itself...when modern scientists such as Einstein and Stephen Hawking mention 'God' in their writing, this is what they seem to mean: that God is Nature."     Victor J. Stenger.

[Ocklawaha]

...this is what they seem to mean

...but they have few followers now

...In my view, all that is necessary for faith

...Everyone who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced

...I don't have the evidence to prove that God doesn't exist, but I so strongly suspect

...This doesn’t prove that there is no God

Hardly the stuff one would want to depend on in a court of law, but some will depend on in the court of eternity.

[Ocklawaha]

BEN SAYS, just a heads up, because of the highly charged nature of this discussion, please refrain from name calling. 

[PeeJayEss]

Hardly the stuff one would want to depend on in a court of law, but some will depend on in the court of eternity.

Or, ya know, there is no eternity, or a court in front of which we are judged.
And if there is a court where the sentence is eternal punishment for discrete acts of evil committed in a finite lifetime, one made possible by the judge for the sole purpose of judging us, is that really a court system that you want to be tried in? Cognitive dissonance is the only way to believe in a good and just god who also forces us to take an ~80 year test where failure results in eternal damnation.

[ronchamblin]

"I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all. One reason I know he's not the Antichrist is the Antichrist is going to have much higher poll numbers when he comes. President Obama is not the Antichrist."

The above statement is from Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist Church of Dallas. 
I sleep easier now, knowing the Southern Baptists have determined that Obama is not the Antichrist.

[If_I_Loved_you]

"I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all. One reason I know he's not the Antichrist is the Antichrist is going to have much higher poll numbers when he comes," said Jeffress.

"President Obama is not the Antichrist. But what I am saying is this: the course he is choosing to lead our nation is paving the way for the future reign of the Antichrist."

Jeffress would go on to say that "it is time for Christians to stand up and to push back against this evil that is overtaking our nation" and to do so via "the ballot box."

This is not the first time that Jeffress has garnered controversy for his remarks regarding major political figures. During the Family Research Council's "Values Voters Summit" in October of last year, Jeffress called Mormonism a cult.

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/texas-megachurch-pastor-says-obama-will-pave-way-for-antichrist-84639/#PI36TgMkyacfr2eJ.99
"Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and don't let anybody tell you otherwise. Even though he talks about Jesus as his Lord and savior, he is not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult," said Jeffress, who was supporting Texas Gov. Rick Perry's bid to become the GOP presidential nominee.

"It's a little hypocritical for the last eight years to be talking about how important it is for us to elect a Christian president and then turn around and endorse a non-Christian."

Jeffress' remarks received much criticism, both for his refusal to vote for someone over their religious beliefs and because in the opinions of some there had been a different understanding as to what the word "cult" meant in the context Jeffress was using.

In an editorial for The Christian Post, Dr. Richard Land noted the disparity between how Jeffress used the word "cult" and how the public perceived it.

"The problem is that while Mormonism may technically be a cult theologically, in that it has moved well beyond the parameters of orthodox, apostle's creed Trinitarian Christianity, it does not behave as a cult culturally or socially," wrote Land.

"Most people would tell you that Mormons are solid citizens and among the nicest and most moral people they know."

Despite the statements made at the VVS in October, as Romney gained the nomination Jeffress proceeded to voice his support for the Mormon candidate.

"I haven't changed my tune … In fact, I never said Christians should not vote for Mitt Romney. When I talked about his theology," said Jeffress in an interview with Fox News.

"I still maintain there are vast differences in theology between Mormons and Christians, but we do share many of the same values, like the sanctity of life and religious freedom."

Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/texas-megachurch-pastor-says-obama-will-pave-way-for-antichrist-84639/#PI36TgMkyacfr2eJ.99

[KenFSU]

"I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all. One reason I know he's not the Antichrist is the Antichrist is going to have much higher poll numbers when he comes."

LOVE how the Antichrist is now being vetted via exit polls.

I wonder if there's a committee out there arguing somewhere over whether to use the popular vote or the electoral college to begin calling each state in favor of the Antichrist.

[If_I_Loved_you]

"I want you to hear me tonight, I am not saying that President Obama is the Antichrist, I am not saying that at all. One reason I know he's not the Antichrist is the Antichrist is going to have much higher poll numbers when he comes."

LOVE how the Antichrist is now being vetted via exit polls.

I wonder if there's a committee out there arguing somewhere over whether to use the popular vote or the electoral college to begin calling each state in favor of the Antichrist.

Could Be?

[Ocklawaha]

Which ever side of the fence your own, some of you might have a serious curiosity about the difference in Romney's faith and your local First Baptist, Methodist, Catholic... etc. Church.

While this might fly right past many in our friendly atheist community, LDS or MORMON doctrine is foreign to orthodox Christian teachings, to wit:

“The head God called together the Gods and sat in grand council to bring forth the world. The grand counsellors sat at the head in yonder heavens, and contemplated the creation of the worlds which were created at that time… In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.” (Journal of Discourses 6:5).

God is not only our ruler and creator; he is also our Heavenly Father. . . . Every person who was ever born on earth was our spirit brother or sister in heaven. The first spirit born to our heavenly parents was Jesus Christ (see D&C 93:21), so he is literally our elder brother (see Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 26). Because we are the spiritual children of our heavenly parents, we have inherited the potential to develop their divine qualities. (Gospel Principles, 1997, p. 11)

According to LDS doctrine, the two oldest sons of God were Jesus and Lucifer. Lucifer convinced one-third of his brothers and sisters to join him in rebellion and were expelled from Heaven (see Gospel Principles, chapter 3 . The other two-thirds became the humans born on our earth. This doctrine is mainly drawn from Joseph Smith's revelations in the Book of Abraham and the Book of Moses in the Pearl of Great Price.

So when Doctor Land made the following statement, he was absolutely spot on.

"The problem is that while Mormonism may technically be a cult theologically, in that it has moved well beyond the parameters of orthodox, apostle's creed Trinitarian Christianity, it does not behave as a cult culturally or socially," wrote Land."

BINGO!

[ronchamblin]

My goodness, 3,500 churches closing each year?  Hmmmmm.  Perhaps more people are beginning to see the truths about churchin and preachin and power and greed and superstition and lying.

[ronchamblin]

In Kentucky, a law requires the state's Office of Homeland Security to post a plaque recognizing the power of the Almighty God--and violating this law could result in 12 months in prison.

full article:

http://www.alternet.org/belief/year-jail-not-believing-god-how-kentucky-persecuting-atheists