Hemming Plaza to be Destroyed?

[MEGATRON]

Interesting that Megatron started posting at about the exact same time that BigGuy disappeared.

Sorry, to disappoint, but I don't know who that is.

[MEGATRON]

Count me in as a part of the crowd that believes downtown's failures have little to nothing to do with the homeless.  It's just much easier to pick on the lowest common denominator than to address the larger elephant in the room.  Downtown's problem is we've ripped apart its economic structure.  It will continue to falter until we strengthen its connectivity with the surrounding neighborhoods, facilitate natural market rate revitalization and implement pedestrian scale strategies that encourage walkability.  Considering that homeless are also people, strategies that de-humanify public spaces only result in completely empty public spaces.

However, fixing Hemming isn't complicated.  It originally worked because it had uses that opened up and integrated with it on all four sides.  Now we've gone from grand hotels and department stores to a public offices with limited operating hours and access points.  We've also replaced it, in terms of programming, with the Landing's courtyard.  Nevertheless, visit the park during Art Walk or an event like Go Skate Day.  The homeless, benches, and mean old chess gangsters aren't a problem then.

Thus, fixing a space like Hemming, doesn't mean removing amenities in an effort to run off people some don't like. You simply have to add things that attract a diverse amount of users on an around-the-clock basis.  That means programming, not only the park itself but better utilizing the spaces surrounding it. San Diego's Gaslamp District is a great example.  Their homeless are still there (resolving homelessness isn't going to occur only at the local level) but there's so many people on those streets, you rarely notice them.

You may very well be right, Lake.  However, I think there happens to be a population on this message board that, quite frankly, has little to no problem eating their lunch next to a homeless person in Hemming Plaza.  That population is the minority IMO.

[Jdog]

Count me in as a part of the crowd that believes downtown's failures have little to nothing to do with the homeless.  It's just much easier to pick on the lowest common denominator than to address the larger elephant in the room.  Downtown's problem is we've ripped apart its economic structure.  It will continue to falter until we strengthen its connectivity with the surrounding neighborhoods, facilitate natural market rate revitalization and implement pedestrian scale strategies that encourage walkability.  Considering that homeless are also people, strategies that de-humanify public spaces only result in completely empty public spaces.

However, fixing Hemming isn't complicated.  It originally worked because it had uses that opened up and integrated with it on all four sides.  Now we've gone from grand hotels and department stores to a public offices with limited operating hours and access points.  We've also replaced it, in terms of programming, with the Landing's courtyard.  Nevertheless, visit the park during Art Walk or an event like Go Skate Day.  The homeless, benches, and mean old chess gangsters aren't a problem then.

Thus, fixing a space like Hemming, doesn't mean removing amenities in an effort to run off people some don't like. You simply have to add things that attract a diverse amount of users on an around-the-clock basis.  That means programming, not only the park itself but better utilizing the spaces surrounding it. San Diego's Gaslamp District is a great example.  Their homeless are still there (resolving homelessness isn't going to occur only at the local level) but there's so many people on those streets, you rarely notice them. 

clapping my hands wildly in response.

More clapping. 

[urbaknight]

A chess tournament would be a cheap and easy event to put on, I'd enter.

[Bill Hoff]

Banning games is ridiculous. The guys playing chess are NOT the problem. It's the people yelling at bystanders, approaching bystanders, and acting in a disruptive way.

But, removing the fixed seating isn't necessarily a bad idea. If movable seating is set out daily and / or for programming then it'd be fine. It would make the space that much more flexible, and movable seating is actually more user friendly than fixed seating.

Leave the trees & valuable canopy, add better landscaping, add in expensive programming, and give the homeless an incentive/better location to spend their time during the day and POW, there ya go.

I say we stage a RISK convention in Hemming Plaza....that game lasts all day & night.

[thelakelander]

You may very well be right, Lake.  However, I think there happens to be a population on this message board that, quite frankly, has little to no problem eating their lunch next to a homeless person in Hemming Plaza.  That population is the minority IMO.

Or perhaps the real answer is there is no reason for someone to eat their lunch in the park.  Personally speaking, I worked a block away from Hemming and never ate lunch in it or any other downtown park for two years.  Quite frankly, I had no reason to.  I either ate at a restaurant or at my office desk (where I could play on MJ for the full the hour).  I did hit up a few food trucks earlier this year, but I ended up eating those lunches in my truck where I could listen to sports radio for 30 minutes.  If you want people eating lunch in the park, stick a food truck or two in there for free instead of paying someone to cut down trees, enforce a card game ban, and remove chairs.

[MEGATRON]

Count me in as a part of the crowd that believes downtown's failures have little to nothing to do with the homeless.  It's just much easier to pick on the lowest common denominator than to address the larger elephant in the room.  Downtown's problem is we've ripped apart its economic structure.  It will continue to falter until we strengthen its connectivity with the surrounding neighborhoods, facilitate natural market rate revitalization and implement pedestrian scale strategies that encourage walkability.  Considering that homeless are also people, strategies that de-humanify public spaces only result in completely empty public spaces.

However, fixing Hemming isn't complicated.  It originally worked because it had uses that opened up and integrated with it on all four sides.  Now we've gone from grand hotels and department stores to a public offices with limited operating hours and access points.  We've also replaced it, in terms of programming, with the Landing's courtyard.  Nevertheless, visit the park during Art Walk or an event like Go Skate Day.  The homeless, benches, and mean old chess gangsters aren't a problem then.

Thus, fixing a space like Hemming, doesn't mean removing amenities in an effort to run off people some don't like. You simply have to add things that attract a diverse amount of users on an around-the-clock basis.  That means programming, not only the park itself but better utilizing the spaces surrounding it. San Diego's Gaslamp District is a great example.  Their homeless are still there (resolving homelessness isn't going to occur only at the local level) but there's so many people on those streets, you rarely notice them.

You may very well be right, Lake.  However, I think there happens to be a population on this message board that, quite frankly, has little to no problem eating their lunch next to a homeless person in Hemming Plaza.  That population is the minority IMO.

And one supposes that one meets a lot of people who prefer to ski in Alpine resorts.  Its definitely a minority of the population, but then again, they are the type who go to ski resorts, arent they?

You can disagree if you want to, but I work downtown and most all my coworkers would not eat in Hemming Park.  If you want it to succeed, it has to appeal to a broader spectrum of folks than those on this message board. 

[thelakelander]

^Programming is what appeals to a broader spectrum.  Creating a pedestrian hostile place doesn't appeal to anyone.

[Dog Walker]

We sat in Hemming Plaza for about thirty minutes yesterday evening waiting for a 5:30 dinner time appointment.  We saw a couple of really intense chess games with spectators and a great, enthusiastic dominoes game that was being enjoyed by everyone within earshot.  Best one I've seen since living in Tampa.

Nobody was disturbing us or each other.  Lots of litter around that needed picking up.

[strider]

We sat in Hemming Plaza for about thirty minutes yesterday evening waiting for a 5:30 dinner time appointment.  We saw a couple of really intense chess games with spectators and a great, enthusiastic dominoes game that was being enjoyed by everyone within earshot.  Best one I've seen since living in Tampa.

Nobody was disturbing us or each other.  Lots of litter around that needed picking up.

So, perhaps we take the funding these so called "representatives" of ours want to waste and hire a few people to pick up the trash more often?

The truth is even Redman, Daniels and the other one are simply responding to their own fears.  And some unknown others who are even more fearful of the homeless are backing their play.  FEAR.  Not what to base laws and policy on, though there are indeed many laws that are fear based.  Doesn't make it the best or the right thing to do.

By not being afraid, people like JefferyS makes the "Walk of death" video that shows Hemming Plaza being exactly what it should be, a social place.  By not being afraid, Dogwalker sits in the plaza and gets to see a little interesting slice of life being played out.  By being very afraid, Megatron misses out on it all.  SO do many more who can't get past their fear and just take that walk.

There is nothing wrong with Hemming Plaza. It is Downtown that ails and only time and common sense help to commercial development will heel it.

[MEGATRON]

By not being afraid, people like JefferyS makes the "Walk of death" video that shows Hemming Plaza being exactly what it should be, a social place.  By not being afraid, Dogwalker sits in the plaza and gets to see a little interesting slice of life being played out.  By being very afraid, Megatron misses out on it all.  SO do many more who can't get past their fear and just take that walk.

Or, you can be realistic.  Shape it and work it how you want.  However, if you want to attract people to downtown, you are going to have to appeal to a broader audience than Dogwalker and JefferyS.  Would you not agree?

[MEGATRON]

unfortunately you will appeal to a far smaller sample of jax residents that the couple of hundred thousand readers of this website, megatron if you destroy all the public amenities.

Perhaps your friends don't like poor people, but they will certainly not like them any more in an uncomfortable, hot, chairless environment.  To believe otherwise requires a pretty gigantic leap of faith.

Don't get me confused with the crowd that wants to tear out the seating.  I am not in that boat.  I just wanted to see the City being proactive about moving the homeless away from downtown.

And, Stephen, love the website and, for good reason, you are very proud of it, but couple hundred thousand??? 

[Ralph W]

It seems to me that if the few chess and/or card players and the others who may or may not be homeless are taking up all the available seating and tables, leaving none for the anointed, there should be additional seating and tables installed.

If there are real problems with the people currently perceived to be hogging all the space or intimidating the sheeple then the police need to be on foot and in the park to tone down the threat. There is no law on the books making fun and games illegal. At least not yet. That's a can of worms I would think our council reps would want to keep closed.

[Coolyfett]

For the record, DVI is mostly on the side of goodness and light when it comes to this issue.

They just sent us an email asking us to remember the presentation that they prepared for best practices---and a link to their website discussion of it here:  http://downtownjacksonville.org/blog/2012/10/22/hemming-plaza-applying-best-practices-to-jacksonvilles-downtown-plaza/

as you will see, they recommend taking out the seating and replacing it with labor intensive portable seating and removable tables and chairs.

They used to do that down in Atlanta at this place called Woodruff park near Underground. Seats were in place at 7am & gone at like 9pm

[MEGATRON]

unfortunately you will appeal to a far smaller sample of jax residents that the couple of hundred thousand readers of this website, megatron if you destroy all the public amenities.

Perhaps your friends don't like poor people, but they will certainly not like them any more in an uncomfortable, hot, chairless environment.  To believe otherwise requires a pretty gigantic leap of faith.

Don't get me confused with the crowd that wants to tear out the seating.  I am not in that boat.  I just wanted to see the City being proactive about moving the homeless away from downtown.

And, Stephen, love the website and, for good reason, you are very proud of it, but couple hundred thousand???

actually its a bit more, and thanks!  Our numbers in from April register over 500k unique visitors.  MJ's readership has grown much larger than any of us anticipated.

I think the city should have been proactive when Wanda Lanier tried to solve this problem 10years ago, so we definitely agree on that issue!

That's fantastic. Congrats!