Hemming Plaza to be Destroyed?

[Charles Hunter]

I might go "off" if Pig.got stuck a microphone and camera in my face while I was relaxing in the park.

[ronchamblin]

I think the intellectual disconnect falls with the local media and corresponding public perception of Hemming Plaza being 'Robert,' and 'Robert' being Hemming Plaza.

Absolutely Ock.  Robert, if he is to be the biggest item on the piece, is certainly not of great essence to the issue.  We will see. 

[BridgeTroll]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

[Bill Hoff]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

I'm familiar with the agressive man with the white beard. He has mental health issues.....most of the problems in the park are related to individuals with mental health issues.

That is a very difficult nut to crack, as they are the least likely to use a day center or other services offered to them. The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered. Many of these individuals would ideally be in a supervised care facility for those with mental health issues. Which is next to impossible to provide in this situation.

Speaking of which, a homeless day center will not compete for homeless with Hemming Park. It's purpose is not to empty Hemming Park and the Main Library of homeless people, but to be a connection point to services. Easier access, etc. Opening a day center does not equate to a problem free Hemming Park, so they shouldn't be seen as connected in that way.

Speaking of which x 2, JSO is not on the same page with everyone else about what a homeless day center is. The Sheriff sees it as a release point for homeless trouble makers, but that's not what the day center would be. Two totally different facilities/programs. On a similar note, it doesn't appear that the City Council committee working on this issue is on the same page with anyone about the issues/solutions to Hemming Park. They need a life line and are currently lost at sea.

Speaking of which x 3, the site of the day center is for the PILOT program only, and would probably move if/when a permanent day center is established.

City leaders, JSO, social service providers, and planners/civic activists need to be at the same table discussing these issues. Everyone going their direction has not and will not work to address the long-term issue of how to best care for our homeless citizens, and how that affects Downtown.

[Bill Hoff]

.

[jtwestside]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

I'm familiar with the agressive man with the white beard. He has mental health issues.....most of the problems in the park are related to individuals with mental health issues.

That is a very difficult nut to crack, as they are the least likely to use a day center or other services offered to them. The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered. Many of these individuals would ideally be in a supervised care facility for those with mental health issues. Which is next to impossible to provide in this situation.

Speaking of which, a homeless day center will not compete for homeless with Hemming Park. It's purpose is not to empty Hemming Park and the Main Library of homeless people, but to be a connection point to services. Easier access, etc. Opening a day center does not equate to a problem free Hemming Park, so they shouldn't be seen as connected in that way.

Speaking of which x 2, JSO is not on the same page with everyone else about what a homeless day center is. The Sheriff sees it as a release point for homeless trouble makers, but that's not what the day center would be. Two totally different facilities/programs.

Speaking of which x 3, the site of the day center is for the PILOT program only, and would probably move if/when a permanent day center is established.

"The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered." The problem is much more complex than that. And even if services were cut then the issue started with the push to stop forcible treatment. (I'm not saying it should be started again, but if you've become a vagrant and you're living on the street I think forced management is much more humane.) You also say yourself they are the least likely to seek help, so throwing all of the money in the world at it wouldn't help. The BBC actually has a great program that examines the same period in their history called "Mental: A History of the Madhouse" if you can find it somewhere it's worth watching.

I was at the library and Hemming Plaza on Saturday. Hemming plaza smelled of urine, and it and the library were full of homeless.  I don't know what the solution is. But if banning tables and games would help I'm all for it. All of the good intentions in the world aren't going to make a bit of difference for most of the people using park on a regular basis. It's either going to be inviting to them and they are going to go there, or it's not and they wont.

To anyone who doesn't think there is a problem I would like to know when the last time you have gone and enjoyed a Saturday afternoon in the plaza?

Regarding FBC. I've always thought it was odd how they build walkways over downtown, yet have mission trips to the Philippines. I guess helping someone right outside your door isn't as sexy.

[duvaldude08]

Our local media pisses me off. Its like they went to Hemming Plaza and provoke these people, just so they could have a story. We are our own worse enemies in this city. Our local media is terrible.

[duvaldude08]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

I'm familiar with the agressive man with the white beard. He has mental health issues.....most of the problems in the park are related to individuals with mental health issues.

That is a very difficult nut to crack, as they are the least likely to use a day center or other services offered to them. The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered. Many of these individuals would ideally be in a supervised care facility for those with mental health issues. Which is next to impossible to provide in this situation.

Speaking of which, a homeless day center will not compete for homeless with Hemming Park. It's purpose is not to empty Hemming Park and the Main Library of homeless people, but to be a connection point to services. Easier access, etc. Opening a day center does not equate to a problem free Hemming Park, so they shouldn't be seen as connected in that way.

Speaking of which x 2, JSO is not on the same page with everyone else about what a homeless day center is. The Sheriff sees it as a release point for homeless trouble makers, but that's not what the day center would be. Two totally different facilities/programs.

Speaking of which x 3, the site of the day center is for the PILOT program only, and would probably move if/when a permanent day center is established.

"The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered." The problem is much more complex than that. And even if services were cut then the issue started with the push to stop forcible treatment. (I'm not saying it should be started again, but if you've become a vagrant and you're living on the street I think forced management is much more humane.) You also say yourself they are the least likely to seek help, so throwing all of the money in the world at it wouldn't help. The BBC actually has a great program that examines the same period in their history called "Mental: A History of the Madhouse" if you can find it somewhere it's worth watching.

I was at the library and Hemming Plaza on Saturday. Hemming plaza smelled of urine, and it and the library were full of homeless.  I don't know what the solution is. But if banning tables and games would help I'm all for it. All of the good intentions in the world aren't going to make a bit of difference for most of the people using park on a regular basis. It's either going to be inviting to them and they are going to go there, or it's not and they wont.

To anyone who doesn't think there is a problem I would like to know when the last time you have gone and enjoyed a Saturday afternoon in the plaza?

Regarding FBC. I've always thought it was odd how they build walkways over downtown, yet have mission trips to the Philippines. I guess helping someone right outside your door isn't as sexy.

Ive been to Hemming Park recently and did NOT smell urine

[jtwestside]

Our local media pisses me off. Its like they went to Hemming Plaza and provoke these people, just so they could have a story. We are our own worse enemies in this city. Our local media is terrible.

Provoke? HA so you think that is a normal reaction from any human being? That's the whole point isn't it? We should all just (if we're unfortunate enough to be there) just shuffle through as fast as possible, not engage and sure as hell not make eye contact with them, as to not "provoke".

[jtwestside]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

I'm familiar with the agressive man with the white beard. He has mental health issues.....most of the problems in the park are related to individuals with mental health issues.

That is a very difficult nut to crack, as they are the least likely to use a day center or other services offered to them. The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered. Many of these individuals would ideally be in a supervised care facility for those with mental health issues. Which is next to impossible to provide in this situation.

Speaking of which, a homeless day center will not compete for homeless with Hemming Park. It's purpose is not to empty Hemming Park and the Main Library of homeless people, but to be a connection point to services. Easier access, etc. Opening a day center does not equate to a problem free Hemming Park, so they shouldn't be seen as connected in that way.

Speaking of which x 2, JSO is not on the same page with everyone else about what a homeless day center is. The Sheriff sees it as a release point for homeless trouble makers, but that's not what the day center would be. Two totally different facilities/programs.

Speaking of which x 3, the site of the day center is for the PILOT program only, and would probably move if/when a permanent day center is established.

"The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered." The problem is much more complex than that. And even if services were cut then the issue started with the push to stop forcible treatment. (I'm not saying it should be started again, but if you've become a vagrant and you're living on the street I think forced management is much more humane.) You also say yourself they are the least likely to seek help, so throwing all of the money in the world at it wouldn't help. The BBC actually has a great program that examines the same period in their history called "Mental: A History of the Madhouse" if you can find it somewhere it's worth watching.

I was at the library and Hemming Plaza on Saturday. Hemming plaza smelled of urine, and it and the library were full of homeless.  I don't know what the solution is. But if banning tables and games would help I'm all for it. All of the good intentions in the world aren't going to make a bit of difference for most of the people using park on a regular basis. It's either going to be inviting to them and they are going to go there, or it's not and they wont.

To anyone who doesn't think there is a problem I would like to know when the last time you have gone and enjoyed a Saturday afternoon in the plaza?

Regarding FBC. I've always thought it was odd how they build walkways over downtown, yet have mission trips to the Philippines. I guess helping someone right outside your door isn't as sexy.

Ive been to Hemming Park recently and did NOT smell urine

I'm guessing after a heavy rain.

[jtwestside]

Here is Piggot's video...

http://www.news4jax.com/news/Channel-4-Attacked-in-Hemming-Plaza/-/475880/17187106/-/l3ggtt/-/index.html

I'm familiar with the agressive man with the white beard. He has mental health issues.....most of the problems in the park are related to individuals with mental health issues.

That is a very difficult nut to crack, as they are the least likely to use a day center or other services offered to them. The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered. Many of these individuals would ideally be in a supervised care facility for those with mental health issues. Which is next to impossible to provide in this situation.

Speaking of which, a homeless day center will not compete for homeless with Hemming Park. It's purpose is not to empty Hemming Park and the Main Library of homeless people, but to be a connection point to services. Easier access, etc. Opening a day center does not equate to a problem free Hemming Park, so they shouldn't be seen as connected in that way.

Speaking of which x 2, JSO is not on the same page with everyone else about what a homeless day center is. The Sheriff sees it as a release point for homeless trouble makers, but that's not what the day center would be. Two totally different facilities/programs.

Speaking of which x 3, the site of the day center is for the PILOT program only, and would probably move if/when a permanent day center is established.

"The 80's saw funding for mental health slashed, and services never recovered." The problem is much more complex than that. And even if services were cut then the issue started with the push to stop forcible treatment. (I'm not saying it should be started again, but if you've become a vagrant and you're living on the street I think forced management is much more humane.) You also say yourself they are the least likely to seek help, so throwing all of the money in the world at it wouldn't help. The BBC actually has a great program that examines the same period in their history called "Mental: A History of the Madhouse" if you can find it somewhere it's worth watching.

I was at the library and Hemming Plaza on Saturday. Hemming plaza smelled of urine, and it and the library were full of homeless.  I don't know what the solution is. But if banning tables and games would help I'm all for it. All of the good intentions in the world aren't going to make a bit of difference for most of the people using park on a regular basis. It's either going to be inviting to them and they are going to go there, or it's not and they wont.

To anyone who doesn't think there is a problem I would like to know when the last time you have gone and enjoyed a Saturday afternoon in the plaza?

Regarding FBC. I've always thought it was odd how they build walkways over downtown, yet have mission trips to the Philippines. I guess helping someone right outside your door isn't as sexy.

that is the point, jtwestside, removing the tables and banning games will not help.

Lets try it first. If it doesn't it's easy enough to put them back. I'm personally not seeing anyone else wanting to address the problem head on. I HATE the idea of removing the tables and especially of an ordinance  that banned "games" which should be the reason for the park in the first place. I was even telling my family that on Saturday, but we all agreed that at least it was a start. These are not citizens using public spaces. These are vagrants who make the park unusable for others.

[simms3]

People, can you quit complaining of the smell of urine?  Every major downtown in America where there are constant people milling about and social services provided has smells, often bad smells.  I am sitting here in my office in SF in the heart of downtown, which I get to after a mile long walk, and I probably pass more homeless people on the way than in the entire city of Jacksonville.

If there were a reason to be DT and enjoy it, people would go despite the homeless, and that's the bottom line.  Hemming Plaza may always be like Pioneer Square in Seattle, which is a homeless hangout, and we may just need to accept that.  The city has already basically ruined any chance of Hemming Plaza becoming anything remotely close to Union Square SF or Union Square NYC (well I don't expect there to be 5 story deBeers flagship jewelry stores anywhere in Jax anytime soon, but I also don't expect Hemming Plaza to be totally usable by the general public either in any capacity).

[Kaiser Soze]

We should put the homeless to work on chain gangs.

[jtwestside]

I was waiting for someone to mention San Francisco! Which BTW is my favorite city in the union. I've been many times in the past few years. They are famous for their homeless problem (and yes it is a problem.) I was actually assaulted by a homeless man in union Square San Francisco with my family the last time I was there.  I know one thing they've tried recently were one-way tickets back to wherever you're from. 

http://www.sfgate.com/homeless/

Stephen, what exactly have we tried? I always see a bunch of "Oh we should move homeless services here or there ... etc". Have we tried eliminating homeless services? Have we tried not feeding the homeless? I guarantee you they would not starve in the street, they would move on.

[urbaknight]

I prefer the sheriff's idea for dropping the homeless off in the middle of nowhere, than the city's idea of a day center downtown.

The chaingang was a good idea too.

I'm not talking about the honest to goodness people who are down on their luck, they help themselves with the public services to get back on their feet. These services are available to everyone that needs them; and any one of us may need them someday.

But the lazy ones that cause problems and harass people and panhandle should be punished somehow. (Weather it's isolating them from the population or, an it was mentioned, make them work in a chaingang. Isn't there an island we can put them on?) Taxpayers should not have to be subjected to their BS.