Downtown Revitalization: Oklahoma City

[vicupstate]

To be honest, while making the article, looking at the imagery provided and google earth aerials, the first thing that popped into my mind about Deep Deuce was LaVilla.  Save for a few isolated buildings, the black culture of Deep Deuce and LaVilla are both forever gone, in my opinion.

The parallels between LaVilla and Deep Deuce are pretty striking.  You're right that most of the original building stock was destroyed.

During my OKC trip, the Automobile Alley area reminded me of the potential for the Springfield Warehouse district.  The Canal running through Lower Bricktown shows what McCoy's or Hogans Creek COULD be like, only they would be more authentic since they are natural creeks instead of man made.  Myriad Gardens could be a great example for the Springfield Parks.   Bricktown is a great role model for what the Sports district could transform into as well.

There really is no better city that Jax can be inspired by, yet be SOMEWHAT in the same league of, than OKC.  At least among the places I have been. 

[Ocklawaha]

Yeah, on a second look, I believe you are correct Lake. A large chunk of the Deep Deuce was wiped out by I-235 which laid an angled spear right through the old neighborhood. In looking for the old building stock, I wandered along the tracks east of Automobile Alley and found a fair amount of the old buildings still in place. East of the freeway along 2nd street it appears they have been removing building stock there too, but have left the larger public buildings in place. We didn't even do that in LaVilla, however going over the aerials it is pretty striking.

It seems odd, a twist of history, but somewhat magical at the same time to see that they have reincarnated the neighborhood as an urbanists utopia. It speaks to what any of our 3 demolished neighborhoods could be if we didn't fear progress. I would add to vicupstate's statements about what 'could-be' locally that OKC concentrated their renewal, I not sure spreading ours from the Sports District, to Springfield, to Riverside, would have anywhere near the impact.

[thelakelander]

Pedestrian scale clustering in the start is very important.  That's how you can jump start something like a Bricktown in a short period of time.  We've made similar investments over the same period.  They have been too spread out to leverage the synergy which leads to additional private sector development, making the initial public investment seem much more massive than it actually was.

[I-10east]

Lets face it, Jacksonville can be average as far as new DT development, and still be a very attractive place to live. Cities like OKC in the dust bowl have no choice but to try very hard. United Airlines rejected OKC as a maintenance hub in favor of Indianapolis because they "couldn't see their employees living in OKC". That embarrassing moment got the ball rolling on OKC's DT renaissance. They don't have the benefit of consistent tourists like a Florida city like Jax, as shown on the population growth of the cities. So lets not kid ourselves here, OKC are doing some nice things, but don't act like it's some OKC runaway in comparison to Jax. I'll say that these two cities are VERY comparable. Some things OKC is stronger (mainly the DT area) and some things Jax are. When in comes to natural scenery, it's no contest, Jax by a mile. I agree with Jason's post.

[thelakelander]

Why be average when you can be great and excel economically?  We have that potential.  We have amenities and a natural location that most places would sell their first born for. All we need is will power to not accept and strive for mediocrity.

[I-10east]

^^^I agree Lake, I'm just saying hypothetically, I'm not advocating for Jax to be mediocre.

[vicupstate]

I would add to vicupstate's statements about what 'could-be' locally that OKC concentrated their renewal, I not sure spreading ours from the Sports District, to Springfield, to Riverside, would have anywhere near the impact.

If Hogan's Creek from the St. John's through to the Klutho/Springfield parks was given the 'canal' treatment that OKC (and Indy for that matter) gave to their man-made canals, that would provide a visual and pedestrian link between the Sports District and the Northbank/Cathedral area.   Then 'Deep Deuce' style housing could be incorporated into the Cathedral district (Parks at the Cathedral being a start already).   Restaurants and Bars could be built along Bay St. from Hogan's Creek to the existing E. Bay St. corridor via the Shipyards property.   

All of that would be physically connected to each other and create snergy between them, as well as link together  the Northbank core and sports districts that are disconnected today.


     

[vicupstate]

Lets face it, Jacksonville can be average as far as new DT development, and still be a very attractive place to live. Cities like OKC in the dust bowl have no choice but to try very hard. United Airlines rejected OKC as a maintenance hub in favor of Indianapolis because they "couldn't see their employees living in OKC". That embarrassing moment got the ball rolling on OKC's DT renaissance. They don't have the benefit of consistent tourists like a Florida city like Jax, as shown on the population growth of the cities. So lets not kid ourselves here, OKC are doing some nice things, but don't act like it's some OKC runaway in comparison to Jax. I'll say that these two cities are VERY comparable. Some things OKC is stronger (mainly the DT area) and some things Jax are. When in comes to natural scenery, it's no contest, Jax by a mile. I agree with Jason's post.

OKC grew almost twice as fast as Jax in the last year.

As far as tourism, Jax proper, excluding the beaches, gets very little.  Just pass-through motel stays mostly.  I think it is past time for Jax to stop thinking it can rest on it's palm tree and beach laurels. 

Charlotte has no particular geographic advanatages either, but which city is growing faster, OKC, Charlotte or Jax?  Given the tremendous built-in advantages it has, Jax is underachieving, and the other two are overachieving.  Jax has the POTENTIAL to surpass both, but potential doesn't make reality.  Potential has to be exploited and that is what is missing.
 

[Ocklawaha]

Sorry I-10 East, I'm from Jacksonville and have governed in metropolitan OKC, believe me when I say Jacksonville is a hell of a lot closer to a modern day John Steinbeck novel then OKC is. Beaches? Oklahoma has great beaches and parks along its many  lakes, including a few right in the metro area. How much water? How about 2,000 more miles of shoreline than the Atlantic and Gulf coasts combined. Ever stood on the prairie and watched a thunderstorm developing 50 miles away? Awesome. Awesome as in 'Field of Dreams' awesome. So one guy likes palm trees and the other likes rugged mountains and waterfalls... it's all relative isn't it?

The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.

[Adam W]

And they have an NBA team now, too.

Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.

[fsquid]

beaches on a lake?

[Jax_Spartan]

The MAPS programs seem to have been very successful. Despite not being anywhere near as effective as OKC, Jacksonville's Better Jacksonville Plan looks very similar to the MAPS and it is interesting to compare the two. Wonder if Jacksonville should  pass additional plans, much like OKC passed 3 MAP's? Of course it does not help that Jacksonville's BJP will not halt until possibly 2030.

***
Better Jacksonville Plan:

"The BJP half-penny sales tax will fund $1.5 billion of the entire $2.25 billion program. The remaining $750 million is funded through sources that already existed when BJP passed. The BJP sales tax, which raised Duval County's rate to 7 percent, must sunset no later than Dec. 31, 2030. The BJP work program is divided into four categories:

ROADS/INFRASTRUCTURE/TRANSPORTATION - $1.5 billion

PUBLIC FACILITIES - $525 million
    - Jacksonville Veterans Memorial Arena - $130 mil
    - Baseball Grounds of Jacksonville - $34 mil
    - New Main Library - $95 mil
    - New Library Branches / Renovations - $55 mil
    - Duval County Courthouse - $211 mil

ENVIRONMENT/QUALITY OF LIFE - $165 million

TARGETED ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - $60 million
    - Jacksonville Equestrian Center and Cecil Recreation Complex - $25mil
    - Jacksonville Zoo Additions - $10mil
    - Northwest Jacksonville Economic Development Fund - $25 mil

[I-10east]

The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.

If OKC is 'blowing Jax outta the water" how come it has added less population than Jax from 2000 to 2011? They built one significant skyscraper since 1984, and suddenly they are killing Jax, gotcha. Typical overreaction that every city in every nook and cranny is FAR better than Jax; I expect that on MJ. Way to stay consistent.

[peestandingup]

beaches on a lake?

Someone's been in FL too long. Plenty of lakes have beaches. And nice ones. Chicago's Oak Street Beach (on Lake Michigan):

[I-10east]

And they have an NBA team now, too.

Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.

I've mentioned it, OKC and Jax are both one pro sport towns.