Downtown Revitalization: Oklahoma City

[Ocklawaha]

beaches on a lake?

Someone's been in FL too long. Plenty of lakes have beaches. And nice ones. Chicago's Oak Street Beach (on Lake Michigan):

Funny we were thinking the same thing, but then Florida has the Keystone Lake Chain, with several nice beaches, oh, and let's not forget Kingsley Lake, this shot is at Camp Blanding Recreation Area.

[Ocklawaha]

The vibe in OKC, not just in downtown either, is simply: THIS IS AMERICAS NEXT GREAT CITY. They are blowing us out of the water. Sitting on the waterfront in downtown Jacksonville we can either cut bait or fish, this is no time for inaction, mediocrity, or apologetics.

If OKC is 'blowing Jax outta the water" how come it has added less population than Jax from 2000 to 2011? They built one significant skyscraper since 1984, and suddenly they are killing Jax, gotcha. Typical overreaction that every city in every nook and cranny is FAR better than Jax; I expect that on MJ. Way to stay consistent.

For a major corporate relocation, given the choices between Charlotte, OKC or Jacksonville, as it stands right now, we wouldn't have a prayer. This isn't 'typical overreaction' as you seem to think, this is based on the plans that were made and followed through, something we haven't done in a lifetime. Unless you've been on the street in downtown OKC within the last year, you don't know what your talking about. If you can work through your cloud of immature apologetics and consider that everything we print in MJ is aimed at turning decades of stagnation into a vibrant, exciting place to work and live, then perhaps you would understand. Open your eyes man. Anytime your local pride gets a tiny bit ruffled, you launch on MJ, our posters, and 'cities in every nook and cranny.' It's sad really, since your attitude is exactly the attitude that has led us to such mediocrity. If you can't change things your helpless - if you don't change things your hopeless.

[I-10east]

^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not. Just because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha. I don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit. You know the city, and yall posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket. Last time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.

[Adam W]

And they have an NBA team now, too.

Not that it really means much in the scheme of things, but no one had mentioned it yet.

I've mentioned it, OKC and Jax are both one pro sport towns.

Sorry, I missed it.

[Ocklawaha]

^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not.

Sorry to confuse you with facts, but "Jacksonvillians" isn't a word, the correct term is "Jaxsons."

Just because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha.

Well considering cities that have invested in streetcars are enjoying a $3 to $1 return on investment based on new development dollars and we're not, I'm glad you got that point.

I don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit.

I think I understand your logic, each time we write about a city that has more going on then Jacksonville, you mark it off of your list of places to live or visit. At the rate we're going, within 10 years, you won't be able to go outside.

You know the city, and y'all posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket.

Of course your not, having to broaden your horizons and admitting that places beyond Duval are on the move, would no doubt be horrifying.

Last time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.

True enough about our fortune 500's, we also had Huguenot's and Conquistadors before OKC, but that will have no effect on our quality of life and thus our attractiveness from this day forward.

Jacksonville is falling behind our peers, in the case of Portland, Charlotte or OKC, WAY BEHIND. We can be active and move, or we can be the new Biloxi.

[Adam W]

I think you're being pedantic. "Jaxsons" is no more correct than "Jacksonvillians." It is preferred by you and others, maybe, but it's simply a preference.

I, for one, never liked the term. It's certainly not the only correct term. I think there are plenty of issues with I-10's arguments. It seems like picking on him for what he chooses to call residents of Jacksonville is pretty weak.

Edit: I think you're right on as far as the rest of that post goes, though.

[Ocklawaha]

I assure you that I had every intent of being meticulously pedantic and while I realize it's apoplectic to say so, the wildly apocryphal rumors that 'Jacksonvillians' has a place in history is untrue. Throughout the history and early documents of and about Jacksonville's citizens only 'Jaxsons' is used repetitively. Other then that, I was just having some fun at I-10East's expense, awaiting with eagerness his cerebral responses. 

[Adam W]

What I find crazy or curious is how one can look at the photos and not see that Jacksonville is in trouble. Or at least seriously lagging behind (which is probably a fairer description). You can see that OKC is doing more with its city center right now.

I don't think the issue is one of which is "better." Maybe Jax has more Fortune 500 companies or a better environment or more tourism or a better climate, etc etc etc. But the simple truth is we're not doing anything with all we have and we're watching our city slowly atrophy. Looks like the guys in Oklahoma decided to do something.

Anyway, I liked the article and I thought the photos were great. Made me reconsider a city I wouldn't have thought too much about before, if I'm being completely honest.

[Ocklawaha]

Glad you liked it Adam, and you are correct, these article are designed to show that other places, perhaps much less endowed by nature, are moving forward. This is a window into the minds and ideas of cities everywhere which should give us pause when we continually try and force 1 + 1 to = 11. Jacksonville has stalled out and simply must get back in the race or be pushed further down the list of America's great cities.

[I-10east]

I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area. I guess that they blow us away too. Every dusty city in the Dust Bowl with no natural beauty blow us away, go figure. A city does a couple of nice regular things downtown, and suddenly it's a world class destination. Going to some store/restaurant/bar/movie in a suburban area, or even a place like Avondale/Riverside completely sucks. Now going to that same type place in downtown OKC/Charlotte etc with tall skyscrapers across the street, now that's utopia, hell I'm getting a hard on even just thinking about it!!! There's a HUGE difference!!! Downtown is completely EVERYTHING in a city. Stay negative MJ, it's only because we care....

[Ocklawaha]

Are you off of your medication again?

[peestandingup]

^^^Every point that I made above, you cannot deny Ock, so my 'cloud of immature apologetics' as you call it, has truth to it. It's not me being overly-defensive of Jax, it's you and many others on here that are the typical jaded negative TU-esque Jacksonvillians that think every city is a mile better than here, and many of yall are overly protective of every 'learning from series' city, have you taken that into consideration? Of course not. Just because Jax doesn't have your beloved 'end all be all' trolley, every city that has or is gonna get one, is blowing us away on that point alone, gotcha. I don't have to go to tornado alley to know that it would not be a place that I would consider to live, or frankly would wanna visit. You know the city, and yall posted pictures of the highlights; I'm not blown away, Bricktown looks okay for a typical local weekend, but I'm definitely not buying an airline ticket. Last time I checked, Jax has more Fortune 500's than OKC, so that "we don't have a chance to land a big company, in comparison to OKC" comment is totally off-base.

I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area. I guess that they blow us away too. Every dusty city in the Dust Bowl with no natural beauty blow us away, go figure. A city does a couple of nice regular things downtown, and suddenly it's a world class destination. Going to some store/restaurant/bar/movie in a suburban area, or even a place like Avondale/Riverside completely sucks. Now going to that same type place in downtown OKC/Charlotte etc with tall skyscrapers across the street, now that's utopia, hell I'm getting a hard on even just thinking about it!!! There's a HUGE difference!!! Downtown is completely EVERYTHING in a city. Stay negative MJ, it's only because we care....

Well, first thing. There are such things as paragraphs. Makes reading rants on forums much easier when they're swatting away various topics of criticism.

And I dont understand. If you're unable to accept the faults of this town, just look at pictures to make up your mind & never, you know, actually visit or live in any others to give you any true insight (I don't know this for sure, just sounds like it), think everything is just peachy & are completely satisfied with Jax for being the mediocre town that it is (and it is, we're way behind whether you wanna believe it or not), then why even participate in discussions about changing it/comparisons to other towns??

Honest question, not trying to be mean.

[I-10east]

First of all, just because I haven't been to that particular tornado alley city doesn't mean that I haven't been anywhere else other than Jax. I wasn't even born in Jax, I was born in NY. I like travelling all over the country since I have alot of time on my hands, and being single with no kids. I particularly like to visit theme parks for their coasters, and I been to plenty of major cities in between the trips. I went on a coast to coast trip down my favorite interstate back in July. I also served in the Army from 1997 to 2000, being stationed in Ft Carson, CO near Colorado Springs; Although I still haven't been overseas yet during that peace time era. So this stupid notion that I have never been anywhere other than Jax is hilarious. I'm not trying to be boastful or anything like that, just proving a point that Jax isn't the only city that I've been to.

All I said was that OKC & Jax are very comparable when it comes to the square mileage, city population, and having one pro team in town. I even gave OKC props for the DT area, and that's something that Jax can learn from. Does that mean that the entire CITY of OKC is stomping the entire CITY of Jax in the ground? I don't think so, hopefully I can have an opinion. We live in an internet age now, and information galore is abound, so that 'you gotta see for yourself' comment is very retro, this isn't 1986 anymore, and you're using a three-year old Encyclopedia Britannica; Google Earth will let you see street view of cityscapes, along with tons of oither info related sites; Believe me, I've done my research. Jason said that Jax has alot more to do than OKC, and I totally agree with him. Now if you're taking downtown boundaries, then that edge would go to OKC, but fortunately for me I don't live in a downtown boundary world with the Berlin wall on all four sides. I never said that everything is okay in Jax. Why do people put those words in my mouth? Bottomline, if two cities are comparable, and someone says one is basically hopeless, then expect me to chime in with a dose of reality.   

[thelakelander]

I can't wait for the next Downtown Revitalization: Texarkana TX/AR megalopolis area.

Looking at the que, here is the next line of cities we'll be profiling over the next few weeks:

London, Sarasota, Tallahassee, Naples, Nashville, Tulsa, Baton Rouge, Dayton, Savannah's port, and Detroit's Indian Village.

[I-10east]

Are you off of your medication again?

No, I've been keeping up with the meds (non-mental medication BTW).