Examples of What is Possible in Jacksonville

[thelakelander]

How much of that would you attribute to Atlanta being home to an excellent Architecture/Engineering school like Georgia Tech? I mean just look at the difference in quality of architecture in DT/Midtown Atlanta vs.  DT Jacksonville.

Hoping not to sound defensive, but there's not a lack of design talent in Jacksonville.  Steve Lovett's examples are good and there are several other buildings in his neighborhood that would be good candidates. 
The reality is that renovating these building require a tremendous amount of personal commitment and TLC.  When presented with a choice of working on a vacant lot, like we have in abundance in Jax, vs. putting the effort into rehabilitating one of these old structures, the clean site is most likely to be selected by the developer because it's simply much easier.
Also, the market demand for projects like these is minimal as is the vision of most commercial/residential developers in Jax (they have to finance this work after all).  Regardless, I know of many Architects like myself who have been very vocal proponents of adaptive reuse and historic preservation, including advocating on behalf of the Laura Trio, Ambassador Hotel, and Bostwick Building. 
We all just need to work harder to help others see the potential, both in terms of financial value as well as benefit to the city/neighborhood, in these types of properties rather than continuing to tear them down.  Toward this end, let's keep up this dialogue.

^Another reason to support the mobility plan and mobility fee.  They are structured to "level the playing field" for the renovation of existing building stock and structures in areas where significant public infrastructure investment has already been made.  The mobility fee structure basically provides built in financial incentives for adaptive reuse.

[simms3]

How much of that would you attribute to Atlanta being home to an excellent Architecture/Engineering school like Georgia Tech? I mean just look at the difference in quality of architecture in DT/Midtown Atlanta vs.  DT Jacksonville.

Hoping not to sound defensive, but there's not a lack of design talent in Jacksonville.  Steve Lovett's examples are good and there are several other buildings in his neighborhood that would be good candidates. 
The reality is that renovating these building require a tremendous amount of personal commitment and TLC.  When presented with a choice of working on a vacant lot, like we have in abundance in Jax, vs. putting the effort into rehabilitating one of these old structures, the clean site is most likely to be selected by the developer because it's simply much easier.
Also, the market demand for projects like these is minimal as is the vision of most commercial/residential developers in Jax (they have to finance this work after all).  Regardless, I know of many Architects like myself who have been very vocal proponents of adaptive reuse and historic preservation, including advocating on behalf of the Laura Trio, Ambassador Hotel, and Bostwick Building. 
We all just need to work harder to help others see the potential, both in terms of financial value as well as benefit to the city/neighborhood, in these types of properties rather than continuing to tear them down.  Toward this end, let's keep up this dialogue.

It's a story of capital.  You're right.  Atlanta = opportunistic market with abundant city programs and historic tax credit programs to make such projects work.  The City of Jax can and should step in in a major way.  Atlanta stole a ton of talent from GT's and Emory's business/economics schools in the finance arena and created model programs.  It also stole a ton of talent from the local city-planning colleges to work in conjunction.  The result is that while there is no longer a market to trade class A office buildings for $400+/SF or to put up new class A construction in a CBD, there is a huge market for infill and adaptive re-use in the surrounding neighborhoods.  Again, my own firm has $250MM invested overall in warehouses in Atlanta.  We have done warehouses elsewhere, too, and would not look at office buildings in Atlanta again, but the warehouse rehab seems to be working.  Thanks for working with us City, and thanks for making the city a hub of opportunistic capital where everyone wants in on such projects.

[thelakelander]

Why was it demolished?  Not that Jacksonville seems to need a reason.  But was there one?

Has even one person gone by to look at this? Debbie there is 100 year old brick in huge piles. I've emailed the council members and have heard back. Tufsu1 it's just down the street from your hood. IF anyone wants to meet there today let me know. I plan to go and ask if I can take some of the brick so as to reclaim it for a future project and then at the same time reduce the tipping fee that has to be paid for the removal in those roll up dumpsters.

I went by on Saturday and took a few images.

[CityLife]

How much of that would you attribute to Atlanta being home to an excellent Architecture/Engineering school like Georgia Tech? I mean just look at the difference in quality of architecture in DT/Midtown Atlanta vs.  DT Jacksonville.

Hoping not to sound defensive, but there's not a lack of design talent in Jacksonville.  Steve Lovett's examples are good and there are several other buildings in his neighborhood that would be good candidates. 
The reality is that renovating these building require a tremendous amount of personal commitment and TLC.  When presented with a choice of working on a vacant lot, like we have in abundance in Jax, vs. putting the effort into rehabilitating one of these old structures, the clean site is most likely to be selected by the developer because it's simply much easier.
Also, the market demand for projects like these is minimal as is the vision of most commercial/residential developers in Jax (they have to finance this work after all).  Regardless, I know of many Architects like myself who have been very vocal proponents of adaptive reuse and historic preservation, including advocating on behalf of the Laura Trio, Ambassador Hotel, and Bostwick Building. 
We all just need to work harder to help others see the potential, both in terms of financial value as well as benefit to the city/neighborhood, in these types of properties rather than continuing to tear them down.  Toward this end, let's keep up this dialogue.

It's a story of capital.  You're right.  Atlanta = opportunistic market with abundant city programs and historic tax credit programs to make such projects work.  The City of Jax can and should step in in a major way.  Atlanta stole a ton of talent from GT's and Emory's business/economics schools in the finance arena and created model programs.  It also stole a ton of talent from the local city-planning colleges to work in conjunction.  The result is that while there is no longer a market to trade class A office buildings for $400+/SF or to put up new class A construction in a CBD, there is a huge market for infill and adaptive re-use in the surrounding neighborhoods.  Again, my own firm has $250MM invested overall in warehouses in Atlanta.  We have done warehouses elsewhere, too, and would not look at office buildings in Atlanta again, but the warehouse rehab seems to be working.  Thanks for working with us City, and thanks for making the city a hub of opportunistic capital where everyone wants in on such projects.

Tom, didn't mean to take a shot at all local architects. I know there are a lot of good ones, many of whom could probably do great stuff given more capital to work with, more ambitious developers, and stronger market demand. My question was more about the ability to secure talented young GT Grads cheaply to work on projects, or the ability to have Georgia Tech grad students work on studio or thesis projects for free. When I was at FSU, we basically did professional quality planning work for Tallahassee on projects and assisted their staff with concepts and visioning, while our professors were able to influence local policy and be experts for politicians and leaders. I don't think that happens in Jax like it does in most other big cities around the country (like Atlanta).

As far as I know, UF's school of Architecture and Planning hasn't done any projects in Jax, nor has FSU's Department of Planning, or FAMU's College of Architecture. Simms, you went to GT right? Did your department do any projects in Atlanta? How many GT grads or students in Architecture, Planning, Engineering, etc  work in the development field during and after college? I remember reading about some very interesting projects GT planning school worked on, when I was looking at going there. Can you share some?

Just from a quick google search look at these two studio projects GT's planning school worked on:

-A study of Industrial Land and how to use it sustainably in the future and a study on how to redevelop surface parking lots at Turner Field (cough, cough DT Jax).

http://www.arch.gatech.edu/news/two-studios-receive-outstanding-student-project-awards-georgia-planning-association

Or this public art project done by the college of architecture:

http://beltline.org/2012/02/15/have-you-seen-these-new-collaboration-with-georgia-tech-school-of-architecture/

If Jax had that much intellectual capital, the urban core would be a much different place.

[Debbie Thompson]

Looking at pictures of a bulldozer tearing into yet another historic downtown building, tossing 100-year-old brick into a trash pile,  made me absolutely sick to my stomach. I swear I just want to scream. 

[Timkin]

Not everyone "doesn't get it".

Come by Kings Avenue, south of Prudential. Look at:
- ELM | Ervin Lovett Miller Studio
- Burdette Ketchum
- Cady and Cady Studios

All three are good examples of reuse, and our building (ELM Studio) underwent a very dramatic transformation of the existing building. It's very possible but it takes commitment and faith in the urban market.

Steve... I stand corrected in my statement.  I should say More historic buildings fall than are kept.  Some with no structural issues whatsoever.   Easier to bulldoze, wipe out forever and replace with new-build. 

Would it not be easier / more cost-effective to mothball and wait out for folks who renovate , like the examples you have used?

Do they all have to go? I think not.

My statement wasn't a jab at anyone but the ones who ALLOW this to continue.  They have the same authority to let them remain. 

Landfills are filling and demolition companies are alive and well, thanks to this mindset.

[Noone]

Why was it demolished?  Not that Jacksonville seems to need a reason.  But was there one?

Has even one person gone by to look at this? Debbie there is 100 year old brick in huge piles. I've emailed the council members and have heard back. Tufsu1 it's just down the street from your hood. IF anyone wants to meet there today let me know. I plan to go and ask if I can take some of the brick so as to reclaim it for a future project and then at the same time reduce the tipping fee that has to be paid for the removal in those roll up dumpsters.

I went by on Saturday and took a few images.t

Simms,  thanks for posting the pics. Lake can't wait to see yours. The final pic will be The Priceless one of another slab of future parking stock. Found out that it's Private property and that it was more a situation of being forced through a fine driven and legal environment that permeates throughout this community and probably the nation as well. Unfortunately it's true.

Asked the guy about the bricks as a new roll up was being delivered  if it would be OK to reclaim some of the 100 year old bricks that would have been like picking up shells on the beach. The answer was no. But he thanked me for asking and said that they recycle and sell the bricks.

I have a respect for the vision and creativity of those that have the talent and passion to design and develop what is possible in Jacksonville. I like the old stuff.