Cracked Houses: What the Boom Built

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

In addition to construction,accomodations,there must be a certain appeal to vintage design.
During Clay County Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan  (Oak Leaf) public workshops, initially rowdy citizen participants calmed with concept of neighborhoods features,homes "just like Avondale".

Their 'attempt' was sorely lacking.  Hard to duplicate pier & beam elevations on a slab.  Hard to duplicate wood mouldings and unique character with stucco and HOA requirements.  Hard to duplicate 'just like Avondale' when you're looking for a home on a cul-de-sac.

[themathochist]

The primary difference between that 100 year old house and the new 2012 house is indeed the structural materials.  Remember that picture from Katrina with the 100 plus year old house still standing while the development built around it was leveled?    That is why there is a ton of steel in these new houses, to reinforce the wood used to build them. The old wood needed no such reinforcement.   And yes, I also believe balloon framing and allowing the structure to breath is something lacking in today's construction.  At least in places like Florida.

I tend to disagree with your first statement.  I would say that the primary difference is craftmanship.  I was taught the proper way to build, but when things were booming, it was impossible to adhere to those standards.  When I started out as an apprentice, we would be on a slab for about 6-8 days - nothing to dried in & punched out.  At the peak of the boom, (I was now a PM with a national builder), my production schedule, set by people sititng in an office, told me I had to have the houses up in 3 days.  So how do you make up the time?  Instead of crews making 1 trip and doing everything, the framing process was broken up into about 3-4 different trips so that the money would stay flowing. 

What we lost was:
1.)  Accountibility, the framing sub would send different crews that would always, ALWAYS, bitch about the work that was done. 
2.)  Dependability - no one wanted to come do punch work - they had already collected their draw and punching out homes costs money and time (read money). 
3.)  Ability - due to the massive amount of work that was being done, pretty much anyone who could swing a hammer carry a nailgun was working.  We were lucky if one guy on the job could read prints.

I think it's both, and mainly due to "mass production" -- and it's not just homes but almost every consumer good. Today, everything is manufactured with low cost and quick production in order to maximize profit. To lower costs in homes, you have subcontractor under subcontractor hiring folks who likely have had only weeks worth of training. Then there's cheaper materials on top of the poor quality... it's no wonder today's homes pale in comparison to those built even as early as 30 years ago.

[Brian Siebenschuh]

http://www.amazon.com/Cheap-High-Cost-Discount-Culture/dp/0143117637

[mbwright]

Many of the great older homes could not be built today, simply due to the lack of materials, and skills.  Certainly no styrofoam and stucco homes were build on slabs in the older neighborhoods. 

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

Many of the great older homes could not be built today, simply due to the lack of materials, and skills.  Certainly no styrofoam and stucco homes were build on slabs in the older neighborhoods.

$$$$$$$$$

[themathochist]

Come on down to Springfield and buy a 100-year-old house with old growth wood so hard you can't drive a nail in it unless you pre-drill it first.  If the wall is framed with 2x4's, they are 2" by 4", not 1.5" by 3.5".  The house isn't wrapped with plastic wrap (tyvex) and then clad with 3/8" siding.  They are clad in solid wood siding, and often with real lath and plaster walls inside.  They stand tall and strong after 100 years, because they were built properly to begin with.  And with housing prices the way they are, they are available for no more, and sometimes less than, than the recent junk they are building.

Springfield has greatly improved since I remembered it (from back in 1990's). The homes there are really beautiful, and you can find fantastic deals. My only problem is that, until downtown Jacksonville can draw more interesting nightlife, Springfield has very little else going for it. To the east are mainly industrial complexes along the river. To the south, you have downtown -- which is pretty dead save for a few venues. North and west are some really rough neighborhoods (esp. around Pearl St)

[buckethead]

I agree with this article 100%. I just bought a stucco home built in 2005 and it is not made out of anything. Just playing around I hit the wall and its hollow as hell. I was hammering the floorboard one day and the wall moved! lol by the time Im finish paying this house off, its going to be leaning to the side. They stopped building sturdy homes in the 80's. They just throw houses up these days.

What were you hammering the floorboard with  Duval Dude?  A Jackhammer? 

Dont judge me! LOL I was attempting to screw in a doorstop and it was not cooperating. So I hammered it in there because I was getting aggravated. Maybe Im the reason the wall moved. Who knows!

Likely a bottom plate which was never properly fastened to the slab/floor. Most likely an oversight. Did you get it fixed satisfactorily?

Houses built in the 80's and even into the nineties were far less sturdy. In the eighties, it was permissible to staple roof sheathing to the trusses/rafters. Many exterior walls were sheathed with thermaply (more or less thin paperboard faced with foil) or blackboard (porous, flexibl and soft fiber board coated with petroleum).

If we're talking block construction, I would say that in some ways, it was superior to current "stick framed" construction of today, if ignoring the 2" staples holding down the roof sheathing.

In CMU (concrete masonary unit) construction today, there is rebar in the slab, connected to rebar in concrete "columns" poured within the block (every four feet and at corners/openings), and tied to a lentil (steel reinforce beam around the entire perimiter at the top of the wall. Far superior to the hollow blockwork of the eighties.

Stucco cracks. I would agree about slabs poured in OP by the track home builders mentioned earlier. Zero compaction. Could be fine, could be bad.

[buckethead]

The primary difference between that 100 year old house and the new 2012 house is indeed the structural materials.  Remember that picture from Katrina with the 100 plus year old house still standing while the development built around it was leveled?    That is why there is a ton of steel in these new houses, to reinforce the wood used to build them. The old wood needed no such reinforcement.   And yes, I also believe balloon framing and allowing the structure to breath is something lacking in today's construction.  At least in places like Florida.

I tend to disagree with your first statement.  I would say that the primary difference is craftmanship.  I was taught the proper way to build, but when things were booming, it was impossible to adhere to those standards.  When I started out as an apprentice, we would be on a slab for about 6-8 days - nothing to dried in & punched out.  At the peak of the boom, (I was now a PM with a national builder), my production schedule, set by people sititng in an office, told me I had to have the houses up in 3 days.  So how do you make up the time?  Instead of crews making 1 trip and doing everything, the framing process was broken up into about 3-4 different trips so that the money would stay flowing. 

What we lost was:
1.)  Accountibility, the framing sub would send different crews that would always, ALWAYS, bitch about the work that was done. 
2.)  Dependability - no one wanted to come do punch work - they had already collected their draw and punching out homes costs money and time (read money). 
3.)  Ability - due to the massive amount of work that was being done, pretty much anyone who could swing a hammer carry a nailgun was working.  We were lucky if one guy on the job could read prints.

I think it's both, and mainly due to "mass production" -- and it's not just homes but almost every consumer good. Today, everything is manufactured with low cost and quick production in order to maximize profit. To lower costs in homes, you have subcontractor under subcontractor hiring folks who likely have had only weeks worth of training. Then there's cheaper materials on top of the poor quality... it's no wonder today's homes pale in comparison to those built even as early as 30 years ago.

More than anything... as in the single largest factor... was easy money. Housing bubble. Created by easy money from the fed to primary dealers, to retail banks, to homebuyers and speculators. Housing was outperforming stocks. Hence, artificially increased demand. I was framing. I didn't understand any of this. After 07/08... I had plenty of time to reseach what the hell went wrong.

[Ocklawaha]

Sloppy assembly line assembly is a curse of modern techniques, but by and large the biggest difference is in the materials. Up until about 1920, they were still cutting down massive virgin cypress, cedar, redwoods, fir, oak, maples etc. Some of those trees filled entire rail cars in width, and some consisted of more then a trainload of logs. Look at the grain in this 100 year old lumber and it's completely different then the fast growth we see today. Stone was the real deal, cut by artisans, and tiles were just as likely to be hand made, each and every one being carried to the kiln by its creator.

Joints were made using dovetails, or box joints, many fixtures, furnishings and even furniture did not use a single screw or nail. Large wooden beams were joined by the scarfing method, each piece overlapping and locked in place. dowels and pegs were tapped by hand into boards that didn't crumble or split.

In some ways the finishing materials were inferior, lead paint, and varnish that yellowed with time. The stains however were oils, lovingly hand rubbed following a single direction and single motion method. Wax was also used to lift the grain and make it standout.

We just don't know how, have the time, or for the most part care to build like this anymore. Antique construction is tough if not impossible without solid antique materials. Lacquer coated, brass plated, plastic or cheap alloy metals that rust through are no substitute for the real deal.

And now you know why I, OCKLAWAHA, HATE the cheap, saw dust and plastic Potato Chip Trucks-Think They're Trolley's. PCT trolley's should all be turned into artificial reefs or homes for wayward sea slugs. But JTA still thinks modern buses are sexy, well, if they are, then why aren't that making streetcars that look like buses.

Here is a 3 photograph story of a streetcar found in Minnesota, try this restoration with a PCT and see how far you get. And yes, ALL 3 photos are of the same vehicle.

Once common in virgin stands along rivers and tidal swamplands of Florida, the finest cypress grew where the land was submerged most of the year. Cypress logs estimated by scientists to be at least 100,000 years old were unearthed in excavations for the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, D.C.

Heart cypress was logged right along with the longleaf heart pine in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries, though the cypress forests were not clear-cut like the heart pine.  Loggers would hand cut the heart cypress trees and drag them by oxen or mule teams to the riverbanks. There they would lash the logs together and float the raft to downstream sawmills, several of which were in Jacksonville and Palatka. Today few trees are 100 years old, leftovers from the previous century's logging.

The wood from young cypress trees does not compare to the rich-toned heartwood of original-growth heart cypress. Over the years, Bald Cypress developed resistance to water and insects, not found in other woods. It was also a favorite building material of Frank Lloyd Wright.

Here you can see an entire train car filled by a single massive cypress log.


Compare this image from modern times with the early Florida images above and below and the quality of the product becomes very apparent.


Log train in Lacoochee, Florida.

[Dog Walker]

My mother came to Jacksonville in the early 1930's to work for the Cummer Lumber Company.  She described Cypress trees so large coming out of the swamps that a single log was as wide as a truck.  They cut it all.  Modern power machinery made it possible to get into the swamps and get the cypress out.

Cummer Art Museum grew out of the cypress fortune of the Cummer family.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

And there's still a lucrative niche market for those willing to dive down and get the logs that still remain on the bottom of the river beds and in the swamps.  Due to cypress' resistence to water, rot and insect, the logs that are still submerged from yeseteryear are worth quite a bit to the right buyer.

[strider]

It's just not the cypress.  Old growth "Heart" pine survives just fine in the dark and cold muck.

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

It's just not the cypress.  Old growth "Heart" pine survives just fine in the dark and cold muck.

A logger friend pulled some up while he was diving for cypress and the sap was so crystallized that the wood was unworkable - almost brittle - made for some really hot, burning firewood, though.   

[Debbie Thompson]

Beg to differ, Mathochist. What Springfield has going for it is Springfield. It's a great place to live with amazing, caring neighbors. Parties, events, non-stop fun. There is a lot to do downtown already, and when there is more, we'll have even more fun stuff we can walk or bike to. Oh, and I beg to disagree about your characterization of Pearl St too.

Plus, back to the original subject, our homes are amazing.  :-)

[strider]

It's just not the cypress.  Old growth "Heart" pine survives just fine in the dark and cold muck.

A logger friend pulled some up while he was diving for cypress and the sap was so crystallized that the wood was unworkable - almost brittle - made for some really hot, burning firewood, though.   

Goodwin Heart Pine is a company located in Micanopy, Florida and specializes in reclaiming antique heart pine and heart cypress from rivers and old buildings to produce lumber for flooring, stair parts and millwork. Goodwin's product range also includes other sustainable and rare woods, including wild black cherry. Goodwin Heart Pine also produces precision-engineered wood flooring, from these specialty woods. The company has a unique focus of harvesting resin-saturated deadhead logs from rivers that loggers felled in the 1800s, which sank due to their high resin content.[1] The interior of the reclaimed logs is typically preserved by the tree's resin.[1]

And a link to recent pictures:

http://threeriversheartpine.com/photo-gallery/

I would suppose that not every log makes it and not every location has the best conditions to preserve the old wood, but it is a common practise and lots of new flooring and trim are made from river salvaged heart pine logs.