$1 Billion In Sunrail TOD 2 Years Out!

[thelakelander]

I'm currently down at the statewide American Planning Association (APA) conference in Naples and had the opportunity to sit in on a TOD planning session hosted by Miami-Dade County.  There, the transit authority does 99-year leases on its parking lots to encourage high density TOD around Metrorail's transit stations.  The money generated from the leases goes right back into operations and maintenance of the rail system.  Last year, they made about $3 million in revenue off their land uses and they expect this number to increase by 50% over the next couple of years.  They've basically come to the conclusion that park & rides are crap if they don't have some type of revenue/ridership generating private development on site.

[thelakelander]

Let's get back to the point. Why isn't Jax pursuing all of the ancillary benefits that fixed rail transit brings?(like a billion dollars of TOD)

Can it really be as simple as the fact that we just can not explain to people that there are other factors than the Fare Box?

People can understand that the Jags count the gate fare yes but they also count TV revenue, sponsorships and I am sure other benefits streams as well when getting to the bottom line.

Why is this so hard for people to understand, why can't the local leadership understand?

Unfortunately, we're years behind in the educational curb.  I sat in on a session today where the speaker numerically broke down the numbers associated with road maintenance and how its a big ponzi scheme.  He repeated used small examples of how it takes, in some cases, 70 years of property taxes for the houses on local streets, like cul-de-sacs, to generate the cash needed to pay off the initial investment of road construction.  There were also slides that show communities are better off with dense urban commercial blight than demolishing that "blight" and replacing it with something like a new fast food restaurant.  Even in its darkest hour, a typical one block stretch, commercial storefronts that line the streets still contribute more in property taxes than a newly constructed McDondald's occupying the same space.  I'm going to see if I can get a hold of that presentation.  It basically had Jax written all over it.

[spuwho]

Let's get back to the point. Why isn't Jax pursuing all of the ancillary benefits that fixed rail transit brings?(like a billion dollars of TOD)

Can it really be as simple as the fact that we just can not explain to people that there are other factors than the Fare Box?

People can understand that the Jags count the gate fare yes but they also count TV revenue, sponsorships and I am sure other benefits streams as well when getting to the bottom line.

Why is this so hard for people to understand, why can't the local leadership understand?

Unfortunately, we're years behind in the educational curb.  I sat in on a session today where the speaker numerically broke down the numbers associated with road maintenance and how its a big ponzi scheme.  He repeated used small examples of how it  takes in some cases, 70 years of property taxes for the houses on local streets, like cul-de-sacs, to generate the cash needed to pay off the initial investment of road construction.  There were also slides that show communities are better off with dense urban commercial blight than demolishing that "blight" and replacing it with something like a new fast food restaurant.  Even in its darkest hour, one a typical one block stretch, commercial storefronts that line the streets still contribute more in property taxes than a newly constructed McDondald's occupying the same space.  I'm going to see if I can get a hold of that presentation.  It basically had Jax written all over it.

Please do, I would love to read his premise.

[thelakelander]

Check with Lakelander to be certain, but I believe Detroit has plans for streetcar that are close to starting construction (if not already started).

Yes, Detroit's business community has decided to construct their own modern streetcar line.

The M-1 RAIL light rail circulator will strengthen the backbone of the Detroit region â€" the Woodward corridor â€" which will spur significant, additional investment in transit, economic development and prosperity within Detroit and our entire community.

The promise of the local rail circular project has already:

1. Propelled the development of new real estate projects up and down the Woodward corridor

2. Contributed to decisions by two hospital systems to expand investments in the city

3. Given rise to Midtown and downtown housing incentive programs

4. Served as the motivation for commercial property purchases in the urban core

5. Generated some $100 million of grant and loan commitments to date by national financial institutions and foundations

M-1 RAIL will be built and operated through funding provided by private donors, philanthropic foundations, corporate gifts, federal grants and tax credits. No city or state funds will be used in its construction.

http://www.m-1rail.com/

[dougskiles]

I sat in on a session today where the speaker numerically broke down the numbers associated with road maintenance and how its a big ponzi scheme.  He repeated used small examples of how it takes, in some cases, 70 years of property taxes for the houses on local streets, like cul-de-sacs, to generate the cash needed to pay off the initial investment of road construction.  There were also slides that show communities are better off with dense urban commercial blight than demolishing that "blight" and replacing it with something like a new fast food restaurant.  Even in its darkest hour, a typical one block stretch, commercial storefronts that line the streets still contribute more in property taxes than a newly constructed McDondald's occupying the same space.  I'm going to see if I can get a hold of that presentation.  It basically had Jax written all over it.

What was the speaker's name?  I will look it up.  My guess is there is a powerpoint floating around the web somewhere.

[thelakelander]

www.strongtowns.org

[RockStar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw

You're welcome.

[Bill Hoff]

www.strongtowns.org

That is an awesome website.

[thelakelander]

I now have a version of the power point, so I'll convert it when I get back to Jax.  In the meantime, here is one of the charts that illustrates the growth ponzi scheme when it comes to maintaining roadway infrastructure:

A new development goes in. The developer builds the street and then turns it over to the city for maintenance. Houses are built and the city sees its property tax receipts rise. Imagine for a moment that the city took and saved the portion of those new receipts that was to be used for street maintenance. If the city did that every year throughout the life of the street, adding the new tax receipts to those already saved, and then used the cumulative savings to repair the street, here is how the cash flow diagram would look.


Cash Flow Diagram for a single street. Revenues are from collected taxes and expenses are due to infrastructure maintenance costs.

Everything looks great until the end of the street's life cycle. At that point, the cost of the repairs far outweighs the revenue collected. If the city were reduced to this one street, it would be insolvent.

full story: http://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2011/6/15/the-growth-ponzi-scheme-part-3.html

[Ocklawaha]

Is Jacksonville both the largest city and largest metro that currently doesn't have or is not in process of building or currently trying desperately to approve and build a fixed-rail transit system?


13) Detroit - ok this is probably the largest, should we be in the same group as Detroit?

Detroit is moving rapidly toward their own streetcar system.

24) San Antonio does not have and is not pursuing?

San Antonio has a streetcar plan, seen as a precursor to light-rail, in fact one BRT line which may start construction could be converted to streetcar before it opens.

29) Kansas City does not have but is pursuing?

The city government has fought rail at least as hard as Jacksonville past, but the public has spoken and light-rail is on the way.

30) Las Vegas has if you consider its monorail

Certainly it is a form or rail, 4.5 miles in length, but it has fallen on hard times, coming up far short of ridership projections... (gee where have we heard that line before?) It also got passed over for expansion dollars in a plan to head for the airport, but apparently the FTA has been to Jacksonville and they just laughed.

Worse still, Las Vegas has drank the Kool Aid for the cure, Bus Rapid Transit. They are trying hard like all BRT propaganda to prove their bus line is really a train in disguise.

ACE is a truly hybrid system. It combines the speed and style of a light rail system with the flexibility to travel anywhere, like a bus line. But it isn’t your grandfather’s bus. ACE features hybrid vehicles with sleek designs and spacious interiors that mimic a train, but rubber tires make it possible for them to drive anywhere. Three wide doors and level station platforms, also similar to a light rail system, make boarding convenient and fast. Passengers purchase tickets from ticket vending machines and simply walk onto the ACE vehicles, which will arrive every few minutes.

The ACE rapid transit lines will feature dedicated lanes that allow the vehicles to travel fast, unimpeded by other traffic. With the dedicated lanes and fewer stops than traditional transit routes, that means a shorter commute for riders. The first line, the ACE Gold Line, will link downtown Las Vegas with the Las Vegas Convention Center and the Strip. With dedicated lanes downtown, the service is fast and convenient, much like light rail lines you find in downtown areas in other cities.

One of the best features of the ACE Gold line downtown is the enhancements to the streets where ACE will operate. Streets are our most ubiquitous form of public space, but all too often aren’t given the treatments that make them truly usable. The dedicated transit lanes, enhanced landscaping and attractive station platforms that we’ve installed create the feel of a truly livable urban community.
SOURCE: http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/mar/26/future-public-transportation-ace-rapid-transit-lin/

32) Columbus is putting in streetcars?

Still hoping but passed over by FTA for funding, trying for another round.

35) Indianapolis does not have and is not pursuing?

Oh yes they are planning and it's a great mix too, amazingly the people of the city are crying foul because it's TOO LITTLE!

38) Providence does not have nor is it pursuing

Providence has commuter rail from MBTA, and frequent corridor service on Amtrak NEC.

39) Milwaukee does not have but is pursuing?

A mature plan for streetcars is slowly moving forward.

40) Jacksonville does not have nor is it pursuing

You might be surprised at what is in the plans, but streetcar isn't unless they sunset the mobility plan moratorium, however anything could happen right now.

[BackinJax05]

^And just think - we already have the major pieces in place for a similar Health focused TOD at Baptist Hospital on the Southbank.  We just need the train engine, passenger cars and a simple stop.  With a dose of political support.

The engine, passenger cars, and simple stop are easy. Political support? Forget it. Sad but true, one overlooked detail always kills great ideas.

Meawhile there's LOADS of political support for the outer beltway.

[Ocklawaha]

Political support? Forget it. Sad but true, one overlooked detail always kills great ideas.

Meawhile there's LOADS of political support for the outer beltway.

Actually you might be shocked to find out that the Outer Beltway has little support in Jacksonville, virtually all supporters are in Clay.

As for rail transit, things are much farther along then the general public knows. Rail IS ON THE RADAR and the City, State and Federal Government are deeply involved. Nuff said, you'll be reading much more about this if the mobility plan moratorium is ended. When things start happening, look for explosive growth along the railroad routes.

[BackinJax05]

Thats reassuring to know, Ock.

Meanwhile, if Clay wants that road so damned bad why cant they build it themselves? 

[Ocklawaha]

I fully agree that this is an unneeded and unwanted road in Duval. Clay County being a 'bedroom community' of Jacksonville does have a major problem with access to the city but there isn't a thing that can be done to fix it. Look at the map and you'll notice that in SW Duval the St. Johns and Ortega Rivers form a triangle, the northern tip of which is in Ortega. This triangle forces all roads and railroads into a narrow corridor. Blanding and Roosevelt, and the CSX tracks are really the only way north, and now that new development stretches from the banks of the Ortega all the way to NAS there is simply no place to locate a new turnpike or FREEway. Even if a new road could be cut in along the west bank of the Ortega where would we tie it in? The reason why this toll road will fail to EVER cover its initial construction costs is written on the face of a compass, it's simply pointed the wrong way.

[thelakelander]

It, like most highways, will fail to cover its costs because we don't pack them with enough density to stimulate the ad valorum tax revenue to cover their capital cost and maintenance.  The first 25 years of revenue will look okay but once its time to expand or rebuild the facility, the money generated probably won't even cover half of the costs to repair the facility.