More Layoffs at JSO

[Scarlettjax]

No, it does not; but it does keep the Community Transition Center open (along with Matrix House, the treatment program) and keeps the agency from having to lay off around 70 or so police officers as well.  But the layoff of the CSO's is a sad thing as well; not only did 50+ men and women lose their jobs, we'll all suffer with traffic woes and longer waiting times.  It would be interesting to know the actual cost of laying them off; paying them out their leave and paying their unemployment. 

[BackinJax05]

Here's an idea:

Copy Waldo, FL's way of raising money, & make the city one big speed trap. Cops could hide behind billboards on the Interstates & other roads leading into town and stop speeders. JSO could keep all the money collected.

OK, Im not really serious - but if they get desperate enough it might actually work. In Waldo the cops drive Lincoln TownCars with the Police Interceptor package

[ronchamblin]

I was disheartened to discover, by way of a letter today from the States Attorney’s Office, that a young black fellow, of about 24 or so, whom I caught stealing two graphic novels from the Laura Street store one art walk night, had spent 34 days in jail because of it.  The letter stated basically that he was given “time served”, which was 34 days.   I had no idea that this jail duration would happen to the young fellow, and had I known that it would, I would have sought to avoid his arrest.

I felt further saddened because I distinctly remember his eyes as I stood between him and the door.  He was about 18” from me, of my height, looking steady at me, seeming to plead with me that I avoid calling the police.  He had a helpless look, his eyes begging.

He stated quietly that he used the graphic novels to practice his art.  On thinking back, I believe he was sincere.  If I had had the presence of mind, I would have simply allowed him to take the books, and asked him to return them when he finished.  I would have expressed compassion, avoided confrontation and any idea of hatred, and would have avoided his senseless incarceration for 34 days. 

The mechanism through which he was held in jail for 34 days probably revolved around the fact that he had no method of bailing himself out, and had no friends to do so.  He simply had to wait for a court date.  It was petit theft, but I’m sure that this event will not help him in his quest for future work.  If he had a job, he might have lost it over the incarceration.  Was he embittered, or did he accept it all with a resolution to avoid theft in the future?  Does he hate me, or is he indifferent? 

Although it was a lesson about not stealing, it was a harsh lesson, and because he was black, with no money, he endured a greater punishment than most others who might too have been caught. 

This kind of thing allows me to express sorrow for all the young black fellows who, because they are black, and because many have had no fathers, mentors, or financial support, do not have the same opportunities for education, jobs, and futures as compared to most other boys in our society.

If I were financially able, I would wish to somehow provide at least a method through which these unfortunate fellows could progress from the bleak futures they currently have, to ones of promise.  I suspect that this wish would be realized through actions which provide some kind of education and jobs.

This kind of thing, this senseless court and jail system, is why I have opposed the growing budget for the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office.  We should be using the ever growing JSO funds to attack the fundamental causes of having so many of our young in the jail system, and not to simply build larger and more powerful machines of incarceration.  Our overall inclination to avoid the causes, encourages them, perpetuates them, and insures a growing JSO, and a growing court and jail system.

These out of control momentums of misdirected assets, bureaucratic habits, and complacency, along with the senseless and obscenely expensive war on drugs wherein so many lives are ruined because of our failure to realize the similarities between drug use and the alcohol use during the years of prohibition, insures the mediocrity of our society, and its continuing decline.  The complacent, the comfortable, the somewhat ignorant, the somewhat stupid, those who stay monetarily fat off of the existing scenario of abuse wherein so many unfortunates in society suffer, should be ashamed of themselves.  Where are the machines I occasionally dream about?  Where are the guillotines?         
     

[ronchamblin]

Correction.  The jail time was 34 days, and not 24.  I changed the original post.  The letter said "court cost converted to civil judgment, 34 days in County Jail and 34 days time served."

[BridgeTroll]

Never heard of 34 days jail time for shop lifting... of course he likely has a history of theft that could be a contributing factor.

[peestandingup]

Here's an idea:

Copy Waldo, FL's way of raising money, & make the city one big speed trap. Cops could hide behind billboards on the Interstates & other roads leading into town and stop speeders. JSO could keep all the money collected.

OK, Im not really serious - but if they get desperate enough it might actually work. In Waldo the cops drive Lincoln TownCars with the Police Interceptor package

Sorry, but screw all of those guys. Traffic cops are a mostly worthless bunch of schlubs who in order to sustain their own existence must prey upon middle class folks who are just trying to live their lives, in a forced system that requires them to drive & hence reap everything that goes along with that.

Yes, some stops are justified, but most are simply bullshit & a money making racket. Plucking random people out in standstill traffic for not wearing a seat belt is an example of this. It does nothing for safety, esp considering a traffic cop can't be everywhere at every time. So while they're writing their seat belt ticket to the unlucky guy who just happened to be in front of the cops snout at the time, some idiot across town is driving like a maniac while talking on their cell phones, with not a cop in sight. But that doesn't matter you see. That easy ticket money is where its at. All at $120 a pop. Not bad for 5 minutes of work. You wanna talk safety? How about giving people an alternate choice in transit & not forcing them into a death machine every day of their lives?? I mean, if we're being real about it, then lets be real. But again, that would hurt their bottom line. Can't have that. So the maiming & tickets must continue.

And look, I'm not coming down on all cops, some are amazing & need to be there. Their positions are justified. But there are some who do this kind of thing all day long, every single day. Its a revenue generator, plain & simple. Taxing us all to pay for their worthless employment so they can ride around ticketing all day isn't enough apparently. They gotta get us on both ends. So yeah, those guys need to go.

[BridgeTroll]

Here's an idea:

Copy Waldo, FL's way of raising money, & make the city one big speed trap. Cops could hide behind billboards on the Interstates & other roads leading into town and stop speeders. JSO could keep all the money collected.

OK, Im not really serious - but if they get desperate enough it might actually work. In Waldo the cops drive Lincoln TownCars with the Police Interceptor package

Sorry, but screw all of those guys. Traffic cops are a mostly worthless bunch of schlubs who in order to sustain their own existence must prey upon middle class folks who are just trying to live their lives, in a forced system that requires them to drive & hence reap everything that goes along with that.

Yes, some stops are justified, but most are simply bullshit & a money making racket. Plucking random people out in standstill traffic for not wearing a seat belt is an example of this. It does nothing for safety, esp considering a traffic cop can't be everywhere at every time. So while they're writing their seat belt ticket to the unlucky guy who just happened to be in front of the cops snout at the time, some idiot across town is driving like a maniac while talking on their cell phones, with not a cop in sight. But that doesn't matter you see. That easy ticket money is where its at. All at $120 a pop. Not bad for 5 minutes of work. You wanna talk safety? How about giving people an alternate choice in transit & not forcing them into a death machine every day of their lives?? I mean, if we're being real about it, then lets be real. But again, that would hurt their bottom line. Can't have that. So the maiming & tickets must continue.

And look, I'm not coming down on all cops, some are amazing & need to be there. Their positions are justified. But there are some who do this kind of thing all day long, every single day. Its a revenue generator, plain & simple. Taxing us all to pay for their worthless employment so they can ride around ticketing all day isn't enough apparently. They gotta get us on both ends. So yeah, those guys need to go.

rofl... been ticketed lately?...

[peestandingup]

^ Not lately, just an observation from life really & from moving around. I will say though that FL seems worse for this than any other state I've been to or lived in. They seem to write tickets down here more than doing actual real police work. That's why I won't be shedding any tears if some of that ends, even if it means someone's job ends. Join the party.

[NotNow]

Ron,

Could you explain what being black has to do with what happened on the shoplifting arrest?  There is no separate procedure for black, white, or any other race.  Also, just the fact that the young man was physically arrested indicates some problem in his history.  Shoplifters are normally given a Notice to Appear (similar to a traffic citation) unless they have a history of not appearing in court or previous convictions.  But I can sympathize with your feelings.  Just don't call JSO if you feel that the perpetrator doesn't "deserve" what the system has in store for them.  That way you feel better and the people that you feel sorry for can be free to come back to patronize your business.

Pee (and others),

The COJ nor the JSO sets the amount of traffic fines.  That is a function of the State government.  Only a small portion of the fines go to COJ and I don't believe that any of the fines go to the JSO.   (The Police/Fire Pension fund used to receive a small amount, but the city gave that up in negotiations with the State so they could save money elsewhere.  Just another screwing of the Police/Fire Pension Fund in the last fifteen years.)  Most Officers ride a beat and don't write many traffic citations.  I'm sure the traffic unit could be disestablished in today's environment by the Sheriff, but there would probably be more complaints in total because of the perception by many citizens that so many drivers are breaking the law even WITH the traffic unit out there. 

The bottom line is that traffic fines do not "pay" for police positions, especially in Jax. 

[ronchamblin]

Ron,

Could you explain what being black has to do with what happened on the shoplifting arrest?  There is no separate procedure for black, white, or any other race.  Also, just the fact that the young man was physically arrested indicates some problem in his history.  Shoplifters are normally given a Notice to Appear (similar to a traffic citation) unless they have a history of not appearing in court or previous convictions.  But I can sympathize with your feelings.  Just don't call JSO if you feel that the perpetrator doesn't "deserve" what the system has in store for them.  That way you feel better and the people that you feel sorry for can be free to come back to patronize your business.

Good question Not Now.  Being ignorant as to the reason he spent 34 days in jail, and assuming initially it was only for petit theft, I thought I would convey as much as possible about the event for MJ persons so that perhaps someone could enlighten me as to probable reasons for the 34 days.  I’m confident that his blackness had no affect on what happened to him “after” his arrest, but I suggest that even in this post civil rights era, his color, and probable associated home and community environment had a less than positive affect on his life “up to” his arrest. 

My initial post was shaped by the idea that it was unfair to have anyone spend 34 days in jail for petit theft.  However, recently, a friend suggested that he might have had prior or pending legal issues which caused 34 days in jail, and that the issue might not be as simple as it seemed.     

Given my insomnia, and my tendency to contemplate in the middle of the night, I took the opportunity offered by the issue to range a little further than the shoplifting event, and to express my concern about the plight of many of the black children and youths as their growth propels them into what is still, for the most part, a white man’s world.

Slavery has passed into history.  And the decades of shameful discrimination against the black people, some of which I witnessed, have disappeared for the most part as a consequence of the civil rights movements.  But for anyone to suggest that all is well and good, that there is complete equality of opportunity for the black children and youths as compared to the white youths, is to be blind to the realities of our society.  To look askance and to ignore this problem, this unfair societal condition affecting many black children and youths, is to prolong its continued existence. 

I think that my concern about this particular fellow was a result of my initial fear that I might have been unfair to him, or at least insensitive to his situation, and that I might have contributed in some way to make more difficult a life which has already been difficult because of conditions beyond his control. 

Of course, theft is theft, and cannot be tolerated unless it is committed by the privileged high rollers who can get away with it in the millions of dollars many times over.  For stealing eight dollars, this fellow spends time in jail, and most of the high roller thieves, who are the brutal parasites in our society, get another yacht, another airplane, and another home through a theft process that destroys the fundamental structure of our economy which , if not destroyed would allow for this jailed fellow to actually have a better chance to live a normal productive life, perhaps to have an education,  a job, and even his own house, and perhaps an automobile.   
     
       

[ChriswUfGator]

^ Not lately, just an observation from life really & from moving around. I will say though that FL seems worse for this than any other state I've been to or lived in. They seem to write tickets down here more than doing actual real police work. That's why I won't be shedding any tears if some of that ends, even if it means someone's job ends. Join the party.

+1

It does nothing for safety to ticket people for going a few mph over the limit on JTB or 95, which is where these cuts are supposed to hit. Although I'll admit I've had the shit ticketed out of me over the years, often for bogus B.S., so maybe (more like probably) I'm biased. I almost had a published case before I was even admitted to the bar, over a traffic ticket in Flagler county that finally got dismissed on remand after 2 years of fighting it. My rule with myself is if there's even a possibility I was guilty, I just pay it and get it over with. But even then, half of them over the years have been total bullshit. Traffic enforcement has become big business, I don't think that in its present form it does much of anything to make anybody safer. It's mainly a revenue generator. I have to credit Duval though, we toss bogus tickets readily. It's not like that in some other places. Like Flagler.

[ben says]

Of course, theft is theft, and cannot be tolerated unless it is committed by the privileged high rollers who can get away with it in the millions of dollars many times over.  For stealing eight dollars, this fellow spends time in jail, and most of the high roller thieves, who are the brutal parasites in our society, get another yacht, another airplane, and another home through a theft process that destroys the fundamental structure of our economy which , if not destroyed would allow for this jailed fellow to actually have a better chance to live a normal productive life, perhaps to have an education,  a job, and even his own house, and perhaps an automobile.   

Exactly...steal $8 dollars of books (books!) and get 34 days. Steal billions in pension money, tax fraud, stock manipulation for personal gain and you're freer than a bird. What's sad about that scenario is the kid stealing the book probably had shitty parents (victims of the system...where's the incentive to be good?) who didn't give a damn about education. Stealing books is a kids way of saying "I'm curious and I'm willing to get in trouble for it!" (Whether he was stealing the books for that reason, or the thrill, we'll probably never know.) Whereas the highroller thief steals for no other reason than to line his pockets and buy more things. The kid is just trying to survive...the highroller is beyond surviving.

NotNow...are you really so bold as to say blacks and whites are treated the same, have the same opportunities, the same outlets? It would be a laughable question if it weren't so twisted. I know what you'll say: but the procedures against them are the same. No they're not.

And, to be quite frank, I could care less about JSO losing jobs. Good. That's what happens when you move from "protecting and serving" to becoming cogs in the machine. Now, a cop goes to work to write tickets, harass the homeless, torment the poor, punish those who need rehabilitation. When do they serve? How often do we read in the paper they saved someone? Got somewhere just in the nick of time? Sadly, you wouldn't believe the amount of time I see motorists stranded and cops zooming by as if nobody needs a call or a hand. If JSO spent less on multimillion SWAT team nonsense and helicopters and more weaponry and nicer cars, I'm sure they wouldn't need to be laying off people. Let's face it...the police are a bloated part of the machine. Let's trim it down.

Even as an educated white male whose not doing anything wrong, I can't help avoiding police like the plague. I can't even begin to fathom how it feels to be a black, less-than-educated, poor person in this town.

[Tacachale]

^LOL, it's really amusing hearing a lawyer call other people a "bloated part of the machine".

[If_I_Loved_you]

What Sheriff Rutherford the city council and Mayor seem to be forgetting is the pink elephant in the room? THE PENSION OK Rutherford you saved 90+ jobs this year. But unless major changes are brought to the table on the pension for police and firefighters. This from wokv Updated: 11:26 a.m. Friday, July 27, 2012 | Posted: 5:51 a.m. Friday, July 27, 2012 "The only thing I see happening is pages of the calendar turning and the problem continues to get worse," says Crescimbeni.  "Next year, that $150 million could go to $180 million, maybe $200 million.  I mean, the forecast for the future is very, very bleak." The pink elephant in the room, you swear it exists or has existed at one point in time, but no one else believes it or have seen it.

[ChriswUfGator]

^LOL, it's really amusing hearing a lawyer call other people a "bloated part of the machine".

They come to us AFTER they get arrested, WTF do we have to do with it? Or are you just pushing whatever you think is a hot-button regardless of how poorly thought out the comment may be?