Saying good bye to old courthouse

[Timkin]

I like the park idea, but think Mr. Nussbaum may raise a valid point in the City's ability to maintain it.  If it was more than just a park.. maybe not an amusement park but something along those lines with vendors and entertainment...possibly.

I have to disagree with Pinky about the Prime Osbourne.  I think it needs to be returned to being a train terminal. NOW

If we need a convention center, perhaps elsewhere in the City.  Possibly on the riverfront but that wouldn't be my first choice for that location.   

I will have to agree that while I like older buildings,  Im afraid it would be hard to put this one to another adaptive use ,than office space... and don't think the demand for that warrants the building staying.

at 50 years old , some may not deem it historic.  I think it is and certainly more appealing on the outside than the new Glass palace , but hey, everyone is different

[Pinky]

We do an adequate job of keeping Metropolitan Park mowed, and the same goes for Memorial Park in Riverside.  Upkeep would likely cost less then the carrying costs of the empty buildings, if nothing else. 

As far as the See/Do/Consume ideas, the parking pier could be used as a "Multi-purpose space, a few, in no particular order, and all specifically oriented towards the parking pier:

- A Full Time Food Truck "Pod", a'la Portland Oregon: http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/one-nation-under-pod/Content?oid=4163268

- Flea & Farmers Markets  (Ever see the crowds at Ramona?)

- Skate events - (Did you see the portable ramps AND CROWDS at Hemming Plaza Skate Night??

- Carnivals

- Art Walk adjunct space

- SCCA Autocross - (Currently held out at Whitehouse Field, occasionally at the stadium parking lot-  This could be done on weekend nights and targeted at the illegal Street Race crowd to get those idiots off the street and into a lower-speed/higher challenge racing outlet

I'm headed out to the Jim Gaffigan show, I'll brainstorm more..    I'll bet Tony Allegretti could come up with a few cool ideas too- I'll reach out to him, he's a buddy.

[Pinky]

Oh, and Timkin, you're wrong about the Prime Osbourne.  Convention Center.  Nobody rides trains.   

[tufsu1]

If we need a convention center, perhaps elsewhere in the City.  Possibly on the riverfront but that wouldn't be my first choice for that location.   

at first glance, I didn't like the riverfront location either....but given that the location of the Hyatt and the growing entertainment district, it just makes sense.

[Timkin]

Oh, and Timkin, you're wrong about the Prime Osbourne.  Convention Center.  Nobody rides trains.   

I readily admit that I am sometimes wrong and have no problem with being corrected, but on the point of the current Convention Center, I just cannot agree that the site should not be restored to it's original purpose.  Bulldoze the Amshack.

Nobody rides trains?  I really hope you do not seriously believe that to be true .

WHERES OCK    

Ock help me out here, lol!! .   ( Ock is the MJ train guru as you probably know)

DO like some of the suggestions you outlined in the instance of the site becoming a park. 

And concur the site would be less costly to maintain (mow) than to maintain the empty, unused buildings, assuming that it does not follow suit of most other demolitions that have occurred in the downtown area, and become a vacant grass/weed/ trash-infested lot.  I think the downtown area has an adequate supply of them already, but hey, that is just an opinion. We all have one

[BackinJax05]

Personally I would like to see the old courthouse annex (old city hall) recycled somehow. It could be easily converted to offices or even better, condos or apartments. Thats what they did with 11 E. Forsyth Street: it used to be the American Heritage Life building.

For a "modern" building, it has imagination & character. The relief map on the front facade, the thousands of tiny blue & green tiles, and its red brick construction immediately come to mind. It also has a parking garage, and if I recall, even a special elevator for cars. The 4 elevators in the lobby once had lighted signs above them. When an elevator would arrive the sign would light: THIS CAR UP

Back in the 80s I did an internship under the Hazouri administration. Call it crazy, but I developed a sentimental attachment to the building that still exists today.

SAVE THE COURTHOUSE ANNEX/OLD CITY HALL. As for the old courthouse, I dont know.

[BackinJax05]

Oh, and Timkin, you're wrong about the Prime Osbourne.  Convention Center.  Nobody rides trains.   

I ride trains! 

And its OSBORN, not Osbourne. 

Looks like someone's been listening to too much Ozzy

(I'd go off the rails on the Crazy Train before I'd ever fly high again)

[Timkin]

Oh, and Timkin, you're wrong about the Prime Osbourne.  Convention Center.  Nobody rides trains.   

I ride trains! 

And its OSBORN, not Osbourne. 

Looks like someone's been listening to too much Ozzy

(I'd go off the rails on the Crazy Train before I'd ever fly high again)

I spelled it wrong, as well, 05.  I stand corrected.   

And would rather take the train than fly.  Sometimes, for speed of travel, flying cannot be beat. (unless of course, high-speed rail becomes reality)

Back to the topic.  If either could be utilized in some practical way, for now at least, Id think that would be favorable to vacant , demolished, blighted lot .

[mtraininjax]

Bulldoze the Amshack.

Bulldoze something Timken??? Say it ain't so! Why not donate the shack to a charity and allow them to use the space, since the feds went out of their way to modernize the building, let's keep it for generations to come, if we can find a worth charity...

The old Courthouse/City Hall Annex is best suited to be connected to the Hyatt and used as a convention center. We have the great river, we should sell it more to people who come to town and what better way than to have the events down on the river. Home Patio show (twice a year), Presidential visits/campaign stops, Prayer breakfasts, JaxBiz events, if these were all downtown, the vendors DOWNTOWN all benefit with more people here and the Landing would thrive, Sleiman would get his damn parking garage, and we would grow from the river northward.

If we "need" another park so badly, use the JEA Southside Generating Station land for the park, its green, waiting and a softball/baseball/running course would look great on the southbank, perhaps with a pedestrian bridge to link it to the northbank, as Brad Thoburn suggested when he was Planning Director.

[ChriswUfGator]

I hate to see another demolition, because virtually nothing that gets demolished downtown ever gets rebuilt. Infighting and NIMBYism takes over, and then our excuses for power players take it over as a way to snipe one another, they'd rather scrap the whole thing than see their rival make a dime, doesn't matter what's being proposed. We all know how Jacksonville works, 20 years later we'll still be staring at the same vacant lot.

But with that said, and even though I've got some sentimental attachment to the building, I really don't know what you'd do with it. It's a courthouse, it just is what it is. You'd have to gut the interior, and even then the building was structurally designed around large rooms on the first two levels, I mean I guess it could be done, but it's not useable as anything else in its current configuration and the cost of the changes needed to make it useable as something else would probably be uneconomic.

Maybe I'm missing something? I just don't know what you'd do with it?

[mtraininjax]

Maybe I'm missing something? I just don't know what you'd do with it?

Well, we sure as hell don't want to create another school board building on the river, do we? After all, let's use our most expensive real estate for buildings that do not pay into the general tax funds! Makes sense to this taxpayer (again, sarcasm).

[tufsu1]

The courthouse and the annex need to be evaluated separately....there may not be value in the one, but the other could be converted into office, hotel, or housing....with retail on the ground floor

[Timkin]

Bulldoze the Amshack.

Bulldoze something Timken??? Say it ain't so! Why not donate the shack to a charity and allow them to use the space, since the feds went out of their way to modernize the building, let's keep it for generations to come, if we can find a worth charity...

The old Courthouse/City Hall Annex is best suited to be connected to the Hyatt and used as a convention center. We have the great river, we should sell it more to people who come to town and what better way than to have the events down on the river. Home Patio show (twice a year), Presidential visits/campaign stops, Prayer breakfasts, JaxBiz events, if these were all downtown, the vendors DOWNTOWN all benefit with more people here and the Landing would thrive, Sleiman would get his damn parking garage, and we would grow from the river northward.

If we "need" another park so badly, use the JEA Southside Generating Station land for the park, its green, waiting and a softball/baseball/running course would look great on the southbank, perhaps with a pedestrian bridge to link it to the northbank, as Brad Thoburn suggested when he was Planning Director.

M-- Would you agree then , that current Prime Osborn should be returned to a train terminal? 

you made me laugh with the "say it isn't so" ..conversely I laughed as well at your suggestion to save the Amshack.  ( I presume you were serious?)   

Honestly I don't have an emotional attachment to the Courthouse or Annex.  As Chris pointed out and he is on the mark , seldom , does anything getting demolished these days, get replaced.   Park, Convention Center, whatever.. I just don't want to see more blight on the riverfront.  So Id rather the buildings stay than an empty lot to replace them.. that said, obviously I think we all want to see something meaningful become of the site, and preferably something that would attract the masses.

[Ocklawaha]

Oh, and Timkin, you're wrong about the Prime Osbourne.  Convention Center.  Nobody rides trains.   

I readily admit that I am sometimes wrong and have no problem with being corrected, but on the point of the current Convention Center, I just cannot agree that the site should not be restored to it's original purpose.  Bulldoze the Amshack.

Nobody rides trains?  I really hope you do not seriously believe that to be true .

WHERES OCK    

Ock help me out here, lol!! .   ( Ock is the MJ train guru as you probably know)

I'm your huckleberry!  Well lets see, just here in the good old USA, some 1,050,000 pass through the two train stations in New York City every day. Of those something like 500,000 are actual intercity, regional or commuter train passengers. That's about 383,250,000 a year. That's more then all of the passengers that pass through the following airports:
Last update: August 1 2011
Rank   City (Airport)   Total
Passengers   % Change
1   ATLANTA GA, US(ATL)   89 331 622    1.5
2   BEIJING, CN(PEK)   73 948 113    13.1
3   CHICAGO IL, US(ORD)   66 774 738    4.1
4   LONDON, GB(LHR)   65 884 143
5   TOKYO, JP(HND)   64 211 074    3.7
ALL AIRPORTS TOTAL - 354,119,690

Now we could toss in train stations like Los Angeles at 1,606,121 annual passengers, or 3.4 million at Chicago Union Station.

Yes, I know that many of these passengers rode commuter or regional trains, and your point is? This is exactly what Florida is moving toward with the new SunRail, TriRail, FECI, Amtrak Expansion as well as 'plans' in both Tampa and Jacksonville. The point is when people are given the choice of fighting choking traffic on the super slab to Miami, or the astronomical cost of the flight to Tampa, they will choose the train.

Current plans (with or without a Republican president) will see Jacksonville served by:

Southeast High Speed Rail, already under construction with trains up and running Charlotte.
Florida East Coast Industries private passenger services
Amtrak, on current and possible routes to Miami via the Florida East Coast route, Tampa via Ocala-Amtrak on CSX, New Orleans via Tallahassee-Amtrak on CSX, Atlanta (maybe Chicago) via Amtrak on CSX/NS
JTA  commuter rail
FDOT regional rail
COJ streetcar or light-rail
JTA bus
MAX
Skyway
local cab companies
Greyhound (INTERCITY BUS)
*La Cubana (INTERCITY BUS)
*Megabus (INTERCITY BUS)
*Red Coach (INTERCITY BUS)
*Auto-Bus (INTERCITY BUS)

* These carriers already either serve the city or pass through with no place to stop. LaCubana uses a truck stop on SR210.

No matter how you cut it, the old station would be a buzz of activity. Granted it would fall short of the original crowds, but it can easily handle anything we're likely to throw at it now or in the near future. Consider this as Jacksonville's last great trump card to become the master of surface transportation in the Southeast once again. To refuse a conversion of the PO back to it's original purposes (forget the other 3 stations and office building JTA wants) is to slam the door on another Disney, Busch, OIA, etc...

...But of course darling, 'nobody rides trains!'

[Pinky]

Amtrak's website says 74000 people used the Jacksonville terminal last year.  That's 200 a day.  Get real.